The Rise of the Far Right

[meltonblue]

So is that ethno-nationalism a Good Thing whereas the ethno-nationalism that was at the core of two world wars was a Bad Thing?

It’s neither a good or a bad thing, it’s just a thing that people need to be conscious of and depending on how the social contract is going, bad actors will exploit it, and they can come from everywhere - billionaires, ultranationalists or even just normal governments at times.

That’s where me and @The perfect fumble slightly differ I think as I do think a fair amount of this has its roots in the financial crisis still and why I still think inequality is a driver that can’t be ignored. The social contract has been broken since then.

That and I think the influence of some of the bad actors in a particular area has gone up hugely the last few years.

 

[The perfect fumble]

So can the indigenous population be replaced by a new indigenous population? Illustrate your answer by reference to (a) Anglo Saxon migration to Britain, (b) either Australia or the USA, and (c) the state of Israel.

Errr, how about no :-)

You still dreaming of a country of immigrants? Believe what you want, I've gone over this too many times.

I think you should tell all those millions of Reform supporters and those thousands of marchers that there's no indigenous people in this country, that there's no such thing as English ethnicity or English culture for that matter. Have at it! I'm certain that'll change hearts and minds.

 

[hilts]

Look at his post on page one of this very thread mate. The very things he gets upset about - perceived pigeonholing of others - can be levelled at him. And I’ll say it again for the umpteenth time - several years ago he was more than happy to say Norfolk was full of racists but nowadays if anyone else dares call someone racist on here he’s straight down their throat. I honestly don’t know what his game is

Well for one that's 7 years ago, two he's said he thinks it's different this time with the numbers and the type of people involved. Three I think you saying if someone calls anyone a racist hes down tteir throats is just factually untrue. Unless I'm wrong I think he said they ain't all just your standard bnp types. He never said those people weren't there or were not racists.
But I'm not his spokesman and can't be arsed looking through pages and pages of posts. He's big enough to defend himself.
The easy argument is everyone who disagrees with me and goes on a protest of this kind is a racist, and it can be repeated over and over again. A lot of them will be, goes without saying. What we do with that I have no idea.

 

[metalblue]

It is just a thing, it exists and it continues to exist even if it is denied, in fact denying it makes it a bigger thing. Denying that there is an indigenous population does not make it so, all it does is piss off a chunk of the indigenous population, Denying that this country has a distinct culture as opposed to say the French or the Germans is not progressive it is a delusion and it pisses off the folk who value that culture.

Denial is not the first step to a solution to anything, realisation is.

The Bosnian war is a great example of the identity of a people trumping an identity defined by borders.

 

[hampshireblue]

Wait, you were bemoaning the fact that nobody had answered the question regarding British culture, I made a good faith attempt to do so, you totally ignore the substance and pick me up on an obvious typo? I won't bother in future.

I asked about British values in the 21st century, not events and achievements by British people since the signing of the Magna Carta. To me, there is little substance in your list. Thanks for trying though.

 

[blueinsa]

I asked about British values in the 21st century, not events and achievements by British people since the signing of the Magna Carta. To me, there is little substance in your list. Thanks for trying though.

Hang on a minute.

If we are told to be guilty because of the slave trade I think it’s fair enough to be proud of past historical events like this without someone suddenly trying to change the rules to suit.

Nice try though ;-)

 

[.db.]

Well the only indigenous people left are the welsh, cornish and some parts of cumbria along with the scots.

The waves of invaders to these islands did not completely replace the natives on the land that is now England and Scotland by wiping them out or pushing the only ones left to those regions you mention.

Native Britons remained across the entire island and were engulfed into newly named Anglo-Saxon regions, ruled by the invaders and ended up speaking the language of their rulers, with mixture with the invaders, yes, but no great replacement.

Only ⅓ of ‘English’ DNA is Anglo-Saxon, very little is Norman or Roman. Brittonic genes have always been prevalent across the island.

Ancient invaders transformed Britain, but not its DNA

Anglo-Saxons still dominate England THEY came, they saw, they conquered. But while the Romans, Vikings and Normans ruled Britain for many years, none left their genetic calling cards behind in the DNA of today's mainland Caucasian population. That's the message from the most comprehensive...

www.newscientist.com

 

[.db.]

How far left or right from centre do you have to be to be considered far left or far right
Because I haven’t got a clue

Just do what I do and say that you are no-wing, nor a centrist, ‘apolitical’ if you like?

I find a lot of big voices and their views on the left to be utterly idiotic, I find a lot of the big voices and their views on the right to be utterly idiotic. Yet then completely agree with the left on some things and completely agree with the right on others.

How anyone can always fall on the same side of the argument all the time shows a cult-like outlook in their personalities. It’s fucking weird to be so narrow minded to only ever think along one line.

After that you don’t care about wings, far or moderate.

 

[hampshireblue]

Hang on a minute.

If we are told to be guilty because of the slave trade I think it’s fair enough to be proud of past historical events like this without someone suddenly trying to change the rules to suit.

Nice try though ;-)

Oh give it a rest. Who talked about slavery? This was asking what are British values. Spouting off a load of names and events are not values.

I won't quote what are taught in schools since 2011 as British values, but I bet 95%+ of those protesting on Saturday don't even know there are "British values" that are actually written down.

 

[Vic]

Errr, how about no :-)

You still dreaming of a country of immigrants? Believe what you want, I've gone over this too many times.

I think you should tell all those millions of Reform supporters and those thousands of marchers that there's no indigenous people in this country, that there's no such thing as English ethnicity or English culture for that matter. Have at it! I'm certain that'll change hearts and minds.

Wouldn't you be telling them that once the "illegals" have been here a few years and assimilated a bit (maybe opened a corner shop) they will have acquired English ethnicity?

I've covered this already.

I don't want a country where we slice and dice based on race, Afro-Caribbean Brits, Asian Brits and the like, I just want Brits. Sounds to me that the Raja family have as good a claim as many to British ethnicity. I hear a number of folk on that march talking about "our country" and "our people", whether we like those folk or not we shut them up by ensuring the Raja family are "our country" and "our people", coz if we don't we're screwed.

 

[M18CTID]

Well for one that's 7 years ago, two he's said he thinks it's different this time with the numbers and the type of people involved. Three I think you saying if someone calls anyone a racist hes down tteir throats is just factually untrue. Unless I'm wrong I think he said they ain't all just your standard bnp types. He never said those people weren't there or were not racists.
But I'm not his spokesman and can't be arsed looking through pages and pages of posts. He's big enough to defend himself.
The easy argument is everyone who disagrees with me and goes on a protest of this kind is a racist, and it can be repeated over and over again. A lot of them will be, goes without saying. What we do with that I have no idea.

Everyone's entitled to change their political views if they wish but that wasn't my point - I was highlighting his blatant hypocrisy. And he does jump down people's throats to the point that someone posting a video of some far right bellend resulted in him saying that poster was as bad as Tommy Robinson which is utterly laughable and a total exaggeration. Like others, I've no fucking idea what he's rambling on about most of the time with his War and Peace posts about multi-culturalism. And while this isn't aimed at fumble himself, we now have a bizarre situation on this forum where one well known poster whose politics are to the right of Thatcher's is being labelled a lefty because he dares call out cunts like Trump and Yaxley-Lennon.

I agree that we shouldn't be calling everyone who was at that march on Saturday a racist. It's worrying that people are being duped all over the country into tagging along though.

 

[hilts]

A lot of them may be "concerned citizens" but it's still right to ask them why they want to march with overt racists on a march organised by a convicted racist.

Ask them then, no poster can read the 10 or 10 million attendees minds.

Can we just get back to normality please and shout any made up number that suits a posters agenda.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

I had to laugh at Musk calling for the dissolution of Parliament on Saturday, does he or all the knuckle draggers in attendance not realise it’s not how it works in the U.K.? You respect a vote and get on with it, remember back in 2016 when the biggest act of self sabotage in history happened in brexit, we all got told this was the will of the people and we were taking our country back and that demands for a second referendum were just sour grapes.

 

[hilts]

Some donk always mentions brexit:-)

 

[The perfect fumble]

Wouldn't you be telling them that once the "illegals" have been here a few years and assimilated a bit (maybe opened a corner shop) they will have acquired English ethnicity?

If ethnicity is this....

An ethnicity or ethnic group is a group of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Attributes that ethnicities believe to share include language, culture, common sets of ancestry, traditions, society, religion, history or social treatment.

Then it can be acquired faster than a very fast thing, look at kids born and raised here, Raheem Sterling's little kids are as English as Rees Mogg's, whereas kids raised in Manningham in Bradford and stay there sealed off from mainstream British culture not so much.

In 1964, around 6.7% of Manningham was Pakistani/Indian. In 1971, 24.8% of Manningham was Asian Pakistani. In 2024, the proportion of residents identifying as Pakistani in Manningham had increased to 62.4%, compared to 25% in Bradford citywide.

Everyone knows this, it only becomes a radical thing to say when it is politically unacceptable to say it, and it becomes unacceptable coz an "ism" tells you it is, and that ism is the dogma of multiculturalism.

This country is not a mono culture but it has an identity that holds it together, deny that and it doesn't hold together so well, hence "island of strangers" hence flags on lamp posts, hence Asian Manningham and 98.02% white Ilkley.

 

[Vic]

Some donk always mentions brexit:-)

You can't avoid it. Before the referendum was called, immigration was low on most people's "most important issues". After the referendum, young EU citizens stopped coming - most of whom eventually went home - to be replaced by a points system for "shortage occupations" that brought in more non-white people. (See The Bloviator for how this would be better than the racist policy of favouring EU immigrants.) And leaving the EU has changed the chance of returning those who do not qualify as refugees.

But the real damage is that it planted intolerance and division in ways that are now bearing rotten fruit.

 

[BlueHammer85]

It's worrying that people are being duped all over the country into tagging along though.

For all the hype, the social media dominance and being financed by the worlds richest man - 150,000 turnout was a damp squid really.

Anti Iraq protest was around 1 million, Peoples Vote (Brexit) 700,000 2018/19 , Countryside Protest (Opposing Hunting Ban, rural issues) 400,000 , Palestine/Gaza 300,000, Nuclear Disarmament Rally, Poll tax much more also.

 

[Nethermoor]

The Mrs was just scrolling tiktok and Katie Hopkins was on giving a speech. I told her to pause it, played her Adolf's 1935 Speech and the tone was very similar.

Look i'm not a leftist, I'm mid ground. I see both sides of politics and pick and choose the bits for me.. I think as free thinkers we all should.

What these far right groups basically want is a White Britain. And they hide this under many guises and state that's not the case when in reality it is.

My main concern is prices of stuff, not who's coming into the country... Because let's face it it's not some people coming across the channel that's putting my Gas and Leccy up is it.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

For all the hype, the social media dominance and being financed by the worlds richest man - 150,000 turnout was a damp squid really.

Anti Iraq protest was around 1 million, Peoples Vote (Brexit) 700,000 2018/19 , Countryside Protest (Opposing Hunting Ban, rural issues) 400,000 , Palestine/Gaza 300,000, Nuclear Disarmament Rally, Poll tax much more also.

Personally, regardless that it was a similar size to the summer's trans+ march https://www.theguardian.com/society...e-take-to-streets-for-london-trans-pride-2025 I think it's extremely troubling that over 100,000 people will march in support of a violent racist to hear a foreign oligarch call for the violent overthrow of UK democracy.

And I'm tired of hearing that these people aren't racist. They took the trouble to go on a march organised by a violent racist. How much more racist is it possible to get?

 

[Vic]

If ethnicity is this....

An ethnicity or ethnic group is a group of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Attributes that ethnicities believe to share include language, culture, common sets of ancestry, traditions, society, religion, history or social treatment.

Then it can be acquired faster than a very fast thing, look at kids born and raised here, Raheem Sterling's little kids are as English as Rees Mogg's, whereas kids raised in Manningham in Bradford and stay there sealed off from mainstream British culture not so much.

In 1964, around 6.7% of Manningham was Pakistani/Indian. In 1971, 24.8% of Manningham was Asian Pakistani. In 2024, the proportion of residents identifying as Pakistani in Manningham had increased to 62.4%, compared to 25% in Bradford citywide.

Everyone knows this, it only becomes a radical thing to say when it is politically unacceptable to say it, and it becomes unacceptable coz an "ism" tells you it is, and that ism is the dogma of multiculturalism.

This country is not a mono culture but it has an identity that holds it together, deny that and it doesn't hold together so well, hence "island of strangers" hence flags on lamp posts, hence Asian Manningham and 98.02% white Ilkley.

What's your evidence for saying "kids raised in Manningham in Bradford ... stay there sealed off from mainstream British culture ..."?

Won't most of them be in schools like these?

British Values Statement - Priestley