The Sack Mancini because of CL failure at City undermined

[Latics Fan SJK]

I think reading that post he is most def not in the mancini camp even if he has admitted he isnt a city fan
Good read though with no abuse :)

It's a very good post. Like DD, I can't disagree with any of the points he made, even if has talked more about the negatives than the positives.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

I think reading that post he is most def not in the mancini camp even if he has admitted he isnt a city fan
Good read though with no abuse :)

It's a very good post. Like DD, I can't disagree with any of the points he made, even if has talked more about the negatives than the positives.

What were the positives?

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

I think reading that post he is most def not in the mancini camp even if he has admitted he isnt a city fan
Good read though with no abuse :)

It's a very good post. Like DD, I can't disagree with any of the points he made, even if has talked more about the negatives than the positives.

What were the positives?

You'll be able to answer that yourself if you read the beginning of his post.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

MY thoughts on Mancini, bear in mind thought that I'm just a foreign football fan who finds Manchester City a interesting team on and maybe even more off the field (that's why I'm on this forum)

Reasons to keep Mancini.

-His track record in domestic competitions.
-Financial Fair Play.
-Believe that he can improve.
-And for some people the stability factor, althought he's been in the position for 3 years which is around the time other top teams usually change managers.


Things that are against him.

1. -His European record and especially at City. The tough group and inexperience and bad luck excuses are just that, excuses.
Some might say that 10 points should see you trough but the fact is that the last year the meaningful games were the two against Napoli and the first against Bayern and with only 1 point from those you just don't deserve to go trough.
City's squad was better than Napoli's or Dortmund's and certainly better than Ajax's but their managers just outplayed Mancini tactically.
Yaya has won the Champions league, Kolo has been in the final, Aguero has won the Europa league and most other players had already played in the champions league so they certainly weren't inexperienced.
Napoli, PSG and Malaga prove that you don't need to have experience as a team to succeed.
And it aint just the Champions league, Kiev and Sporting Lisbon weren't exactly world beaters either.


2. -Transfer record. Was it wise to chase Van Persie all summer when you already had four top class strikers (more than almost any other team) on high wages and the only one that he was able to sell, the one that several times indicated that he's not really enjoying his life in Manchester and could have been sold to more than he was worth, he refused to sell, only to admit his mistake six month's later and sell him to cut out price.
I believe that last summers purchases weren't his number one targets but when the number one's are Van Persie, Hazard and De Rossi, you should have better alternatives. And I don't believe for a second that these players were forced to him.

3. Man management. Now that some time has gone and you look back at the Tevez incident, He had just been warming up and ready to go to the pitch when the De Jong sub was made and was asked to go to warm up again which he refused, certainly not a wise decision, but was it worth the all the "He doesn't play tor this club ever again" statements? Then there are the cases Boateng, Adebayor, Bellamy etc..

4. -Tactics. His fixation for the 2 strikers upfront wont get the best out of Yaya and leaves Nasri completely useless (so why buy him in the first place). And for some reason he doesn't trust at all in wingers and I don't mean just Antonio Valencia type out and out wingers but even the likes of Ribery, Robben, and Di Maria, wingers that almost every other team par City and Juventus use.
So when this narrow formation started to get found out (It never even worked at Europe) around a year ago and individual skill didn't get the results anymore, apart from the three at the back he doesn't have the players or the skill to evolve. Why do you the think in his post match press conference after game where strikers have only had a couple of half chances, his first sentence is "Strikers should score!"? Because it's easier to blame them than admit that his tactics wont work and he doesn't know what to do to fix it. You sure can't believe that 4 world class strikers just happened to became all average at the same time?


Yes he has pretty impressive CV when it comes to domestic competitions, but he benefitted hugely from the calciopoli scandal. Yes even with the resources he's had a bad manager won't win premier league and Fa cup, but you certainly doesn't need to be a genious with those funds.

Mancini ain't bad manager, but he sure ain't great either. He just happened to be at the right place for the right time.

So that leaves two questions:
1) Is it financially possible to sack him?
2) Is there better managers available?

We know the answer to the second one so if there is room in the budget he's gone in the summer.

There's not a single point in this post I disagree with.

I'll be keen to see Tcm or fetlocks reply.

He argues one side of the case very well,far better than you do actually.
But arguing merely half a case,no matter how well done,lacks any degree of balance or objectivity,and tends to suggest that the proponent has come to a pre-ordained decision,and loaded the dice to suit his weltanschauung.
I knew I'd be able to shoehorn that word into a post one day.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

It's a very good post. Like DD, I can't disagree with any of the points he made, even if has talked more about the negatives than the positives.

What were the positives?

You'll be able to answer that yourself if you read the beginning of his post.

Four short sentences on positives and paragragh after paragraph of negatives.

 

[Blue Til Death]

It wasnt a balanced post in my opinion but I'm biased anyway, I like Mancini and I hope he stays a long time, no argument for getting rid of him for me, none at all...!!

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

What were the positives?

You'll be able to answer that yourself if you read the beginning of his post.

Four short sentences on positives and paragragh after paragraph of negatives.

Hence the comment "even if he does talk about the negatives more than the positives"..

 

[mancity1]

MY thoughts on Mancini, bear in mind thought that I'm just a foreign football fan who finds Manchester City a interesting team on and maybe even more off the field (that's why I'm on this forum)

Reasons to keep Mancini.

-His track record in domestic competitions.
-Financial Fair Play.
-Believe that he can improve.
-And for some people the stability factor, althought he's been in the position for 3 years which is around the time other top teams usually change managers.


Things that are against him.

1. -His European record and especially at City. The tough group and inexperience and bad luck excuses are just that, excuses.
Some might say that 10 points should see you trough but the fact is that the last year the meaningful games were the two against Napoli and the first against Bayern and with only 1 point from those you just don't deserve to go trough.
City's squad was better than Napoli's or Dortmund's and certainly better than Ajax's but their managers just outplayed Mancini tactically.
Yaya has won the Champions league, Kolo has been in the final, Aguero has won the Europa league and most other players had already played in the champions league so they certainly weren't inexperienced.
Napoli, PSG and Malaga prove that you don't need to have experience as a team to succeed.
And it aint just the Champions league, Kiev and Sporting Lisbon weren't exactly world beaters either.


2. -Transfer record. Was it wise to chase Van Persie all summer when you already had four top class strikers (more than almost any other team) on high wages and the only one that he was able to sell, the one that several times indicated that he's not really enjoying his life in Manchester and could have been sold to more than he was worth, he refused to sell, only to admit his mistake six month's later and sell him to cut out price.
I believe that last summers purchases weren't his number one targets but when the number one's are Van Persie, Hazard and De Rossi, you should have better alternatives. And I don't believe for a second that these players were forced to him.

3. Man management. Now that some time has gone and you look back at the Tevez incident, He had just been warming up and ready to go to the pitch when the De Jong sub was made and was asked to go to warm up again which he refused, certainly not a wise decision, but was it worth the all the "He doesn't play tor this club ever again" statements? Then there are the cases Boateng, Adebayor, Bellamy etc..

4. -Tactics. His fixation for the 2 strikers upfront wont get the best out of Yaya and leaves Nasri completely useless (so why buy him in the first place). And for some reason he doesn't trust at all in wingers and I don't mean just Antonio Valencia type out and out wingers but even the likes of Ribery, Robben, and Di Maria, wingers that almost every other team par City and Juventus use.
So when this narrow formation started to get found out (It never even worked at Europe) around a year ago and individual skill didn't get the results anymore, apart from the three at the back he doesn't have the players or the skill to evolve. Why do you the think in his post match press conference after game where strikers have only had a couple of half chances, his first sentence is "Strikers should score!"? Because it's easier to blame them than admit that his tactics wont work and he doesn't know what to do to fix it. You sure can't believe that 4 world class strikers just happened to became all average at the same time?


Yes he has pretty impressive CV when it comes to domestic competitions, but he benefitted hugely from the calciopoli scandal. Yes even with the resources he's had a bad manager won't win premier league and Fa cup, but you certainly doesn't need to be a genious with those funds.

Mancini ain't bad manager, but he sure ain't great either. He just happened to be at the right place for the right time.

So that leaves two questions:
1) Is it financially possible to sack him?
2) Is there better managers available?

We know the answer to the second one so if there is room in the budget he's gone in the summer.

There's not a single point in this post I disagree with.

I'll be keen to see Tcm or fetlocks reply.

He argues one side of the case very well,far better than you do actually.
But arguing merely half a case,no matter how well done,lacks any degree of balance or objectivity,and tends to suggest that the proponent has come to a pre-ordained decision,and loaded the dice to suit his weltanschauung.
I knew I'd be able to shoehorn that word into a post one day.

On top of that you have to consider whether those managers that our club owners and their representatives consider are better equipped with a skill set to progress us further and quicker in Europe and at the same time being as competitive as we can be on the domestic front are available and want to manage the club.

There are very few managers around that fit the bill and its quite possible that if it was decided to replace RM we would have to go with someone with less experience in years and in collecting silverware.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

are we all mates again????

 

[OB1]

MY thoughts on Mancini, bear in mind thought that I'm just a foreign football fan who finds Manchester City a interesting team on and maybe even more off the field (that's why I'm on this forum)

Reasons to keep Mancini.

-His track record in domestic competitions.
-Financial Fair Play.
-Believe that he can improve.
-And for some people the stability factor, althought he's been in the position for 3 years which is around the time other top teams usually change managers.


Things that are against him.

1. -His European record and especially at City. The tough group and inexperience and bad luck excuses are just that, excuses.
Some might say that 10 points should see you trough but the fact is that the last year the meaningful games were the two against Napoli and the first against Bayern and with only 1 point from those you just don't deserve to go trough.
City's squad was better than Napoli's or Dortmund's and certainly better than Ajax's but their managers just outplayed Mancini tactically.
Yaya has won the Champions league, Kolo has been in the final, Aguero has won the Europa league and most other players had already played in the champions league so they certainly weren't inexperienced.
Napoli, PSG and Malaga prove that you don't need to have experience as a team to succeed.
And it aint just the Champions league, Kiev and Sporting Lisbon weren't exactly world beaters either.


2. -Transfer record. Was it wise to chase Van Persie all summer when you already had four top class strikers (more than almost any other team) on high wages and the only one that he was able to sell, the one that several times indicated that he's not really enjoying his life in Manchester and could have been sold to more than he was worth, he refused to sell, only to admit his mistake six month's later and sell him to cut out price.
I believe that last summers purchases weren't his number one targets but when the number one's are Van Persie, Hazard and De Rossi, you should have better alternatives. And I don't believe for a second that these players were forced to him.

3. Man management. Now that some time has gone and you look back at the Tevez incident, He had just been warming up and ready to go to the pitch when the De Jong sub was made and was asked to go to warm up again which he refused, certainly not a wise decision, but was it worth the all the "He doesn't play tor this club ever again" statements? Then there are the cases Boateng, Adebayor, Bellamy etc..

4. -Tactics. His fixation for the 2 strikers upfront wont get the best out of Yaya and leaves Nasri completely useless (so why buy him in the first place). And for some reason he doesn't trust at all in wingers and I don't mean just Antonio Valencia type out and out wingers but even the likes of Ribery, Robben, and Di Maria, wingers that almost every other team par City and Juventus use.
So when this narrow formation started to get found out (It never even worked at Europe) around a year ago and individual skill didn't get the results anymore, apart from the three at the back he doesn't have the players or the skill to evolve. Why do you the think in his post match press conference after game where strikers have only had a couple of half chances, his first sentence is "Strikers should score!"? Because it's easier to blame them than admit that his tactics wont work and he doesn't know what to do to fix it. You sure can't believe that 4 world class strikers just happened to became all average at the same time?


Yes he has pretty impressive CV when it comes to domestic competitions, but he benefitted hugely from the calciopoli scandal. Yes even with the resources he's had a bad manager won't win premier league and Fa cup, but you certainly doesn't need to be a genious with those funds.

Mancini ain't bad manager, but he sure ain't great either. He just happened to be at the right place for the right time.

So that leaves two questions:
1) Is it financially possible to sack him?
2) Is there better managers available?

We know the answer to the second one so if there is room in the budget he's gone in the summer.

There's not a single point in this post I disagree with.

I'll be keen to see Tcm or fetlocks reply.

He argues one side of the case very well,far better than you do actually.
But arguing merely half a case,no matter how well done,lacks any degree of balance or objectivity,and tends to suggest that the proponent has come to a pre-ordained decision,and loaded the dice to suit his weltanschauung.
I knew I'd be able to shoehorn that word into a post one day.

I really don't won't to get into the abusing other posters cycle but DD's point about you not contributing football knowledge to the debate might be right, based on that response. You criticse a very good post as one sided but don't actually offer anything on the other side.

You could, for instance, have picked out the bit about stirkers must score and pointed out that, in the league, we are creating more chances than last season but that our conversion rate is down. You could have pointed out that our clear chance conversion rate is actually one of the worst in the league.

Then someone could have come back at you with the fact that Dzeko has a better conversion rate than RvP but Mancini doesn't pick hiim to start frequently...