The SATS con and our education system

[PragueBlue]

Yes, re-sits weren't encouraged but I think you could do them around August. I think you had to pay for them and only if the school agreed to let you do it. I never did one, mainly for those who failed English Language or Maths as these were crucial for further study.

I think it is compulsory now to retake maths and English language until you pass or reach the age of 18.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

It basically comes down to what you're trying to measure. Are you trying to compare people to their peer group, or are you trying to figure out if they've learned the things on the curriculum. They basically switched from the former to the latter. And for good reason, really. How my friends do on the test has no bearing on how much of the material I've learned. Imagine if the driving test worked like that. "You only got 5 minors, but unfortunately for you, most of the other people today got 4 or fewer, so you've failed." Or worse "I know you almost crashed three times and stalled twice, but John ran over a granny, so you've passed."

I would think that if everyone scored under 10% on an exam they wouldn't be handing out any grade As. Essentially they were trusting the teaching process and the teachers, so it still tested their knowledge of the curriculum. When you leave school you don't all apply for the same jobs at the same time, so it would be unfair if one year got a really hard exam paper and got worse scores than those from the next year who got an easy one when it came to deciding who got the job.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Many degrees are essential, Medical, science, law etc but a vast majority of students at University should not or need to be there.

Law isn't essential. Like most other fields, it's only essential because those hiring make it essential. There's no regulation that mandates a degree for a solicitor. But that doesn't mean there aren't good reasons why almost all of them have one.

While we're at it with "Mickey Mouse" degrees, law would be right up there at the top. Not because it's not a useful field, but because so many more people qualify with a law degree than there are jobs in the field. But that's what happens when you encourage everyone to do a 'proper' degree (by which they mean a hard science, technology-related or something with a particular job attached). Everyone takes the same subject and they end up in the same place as all of the English and media graduates (although actually, most people I know who studied film and TV in 2005 now work in that field, which is interesting).

 

[CTID1988]

I remember the pressure that was put on us at school, like your GCSEs are the be all and end all. They made you feel like if you got less than a C your life was over before it started, disgraceful when I look back.
The whole education system needs an overhaul, the whole thing is just teaching you how to pass exams.

 

[Kompany Car]

It is long past time that people realised that what they have been taught in their younger days plays a huge part in the life they lead. I have lost count of the number of people who say ‘I have never used this or never used that’ and yet they read bus timetables, constantly working out unknown amounts (algebra) but never realise what they are doing. They write posts on here but never think that they use past participles etc. They don’t think they use them but they do but tell everyone that they never use them or know what they do. They are always doing them selves down. Never use ox bow lake knowledge? Yet knowledge of these helps to understand why flood plains are so important.

Knowledge helps you understand what is going on in then world. It helps you to know when people are trying to con you. Politicians rely on ignorance to con people into voting for them. Knowledge helps you to question them.

Incidentally, the kids around here take SATS and 11+ (We still have grammar schools). Kids don’t have to take SATS just keep your kids off.

In reality what senior school should do is teach people how to learn for themselves, think critically and constructively about what they are told and the real value of knowledge. Teach a man to fish and all that...

Its not like its hard to find information these days, you dont have to look through sheets of microfiche in a darkened room for hours. Most of the information is at your fingertips in both a written and video form.

 

[stuart_kennedy_tache]

Can only give my viewpoint. I always stress to kids failing an SCE/ GCE it is not the end of the world even if it means they can’t immediately get university entry. There are always other paths to reach your goal. Case in point I worked in my local further education college in the Science Dept. In 2018 we started a new course in partnership with the local University called Pathways to Medicine where students who failed or got poor marks in exams made them exempt from getting entry to medical schools to train to be doctors. They would get an intense years training for us up to Advanved Higher level in our college, and if they passed our course would get automatic entry into the Medical School. When I took early retirement in 2019 the first cohort had passed the Pathways course, and this year they have just qualified to be doctors. One of our lecturers who taught them in their Pathway course was invited to their graduation.

I just think there is too much pressure put on kids nowadays, but there Are always other ways.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

To get this thread back on track and talk about SATs

Firstly don’t blame the schools. SATS are an imposed system of grading children. If schools do not get “good “grades of level 4 or above their OFSTED rating will be severely compromised. Senior management jobs can depend on this so of course they are going to jump through the externally imposed hoops politicians have given them.

We always used to sum up the futility of SATs with the saying “you don’t fatten a pig by constantly weighing it.”

 

[Blue Maverick]

Can only give my viewpoint. I always stress to kids failing an SCE/ GCE it is not the end of the world even if it means they can’t immediately get university entry immediately. There are always other paths to reach your goal. Case in point I worked in my local further education college in the Science Dept. In 2018 we started a new course in partnership with the local University called Pathways to Medicine where students who failed or got poor marks in exams made them from exempt from getting entry to medical schools to train to be doctors. They would get an intense years training for us up to Advanved Higher level in our college, and if they passed our course would get automatic entry into the Medical School. When I took early retirement in 2019 the first cohort had passed the Pathways course, and this year they have just qualified to be doctors. One of our lecturers who taught them in their Pathway course was invited to their graduation.

I just think there is too much pressure put on kids nowadays, but there Are always other ways.

Add to this they could always become a paramedic, gives them a great grounding although studying whilst doing a full time job maybe a lot harder, but nothing beats experience, a GP would be absolutely useless in A&E a paramedic would be far superior.

 

[Blue Maverick]

To get this thread back on track and talk about SATs

Firstly don’t blame the schools. SATS are an imposed system of grading children. If schools do not get “good “grades of level 4 or above their OFSTED rating will be severely compromised. Senior management jobs can depend on this so of course they are going to jump through the externally imposed hoops politicians have given them.

Oh I do t blame the schools at all, like the OFSTED stuff the pressure in teachers is immense and wrong, learning should be fun and I can tell you now, no one in my daughters class including the teacher is having fun at this time.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I would think that if everyone scored under 10% on an exam they wouldn't be handing out any grade As. Essentially they were trusting the teaching process and the teachers, so it still tested their knowledge of the curriculum. When you leave school you don't all apply for the same jobs at the same time, so it would be unfair if one year got a really hard exam paper and got worse scores than those from the next year who got an easy one when it came to deciding who got the job.

Well examining isn't an exact science, despite the way it's presented. So even on an outcome based exam, there might still be adjustments if everyone gets a good/bad mark, which could be evidence that it was easier/harder than they thought.