The Scottish Politics thread

[blue b4 the moon]

Polls look good for an out vote so she wants another referendum... apparently democracy in action.

Democracy in action would be to have a referendum every 5/10 years not when it suits and strangely they'd probably get their goal of independence if England had a vote too but all too blind to see that.

 

[blueparrot]

So, if those figures for Scotland are the result of being in the union, if and when independence is secured, how will the removal of all grants from Westminster improve the situation? I believe there's a report outlining post independence, but haven't seen it, if all assistance ends, what then?
Apologies if this has been answered before.

Read report — Sustainable Growth Commission

Scotland – the new case for optimism A strategy for inter-generational economic renaissance

www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot

 

[Coatigan]

Polls look good for an out vote so she wants another referendum... apparently democracy in action.

Democracy in action would be to have a referendum every 5/10 years not when it suits and strangely they'd probably get their goal of independence if England had a vote too but all too blind to see that.

Nobody is too blind to see that. It has been said so many times that a pound a go would be enough for both nations to prosper as independent nations.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Read report — Sustainable Growth Commission

Scotland – the new case for optimism A strategy for inter-generational economic renaissance

www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot

Thanks for that.
There appears to be an amount of wishful thinking and assumptions in there,
particularly the keeping the pound in a transition period, and that as Brexit, according to the commentator, is going to cause stagnation, Scotland may overtake the UK in terms of investment, that's conjecture.
There was a statement that Scotland collects enough tax to fund public services and welfare, which sort of contradicts the necessity of the Barnett formula, so this does not make too much sense, maybe someone can elucidate.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Thanks for that.
There appears to be an amount of wishful thinking and assumptions in there,
particularly the keeping the pound in a transition period, and that as Brexit, according to the commentator, is going to cause stagnation, Scotland may overtake the UK in terms of investment, that's conjecture.
There was a statement that Scotland collects enough tax to fund public services and welfare, which sort of contradicts the necessity of the Barnett formula, so this does not make too much sense, maybe someone can elucidate.

So a report like that has to be grounded in the present fact and then project forward using assumptions that are always going to be up for challenge.

Why do you think keeping the pound would be difficult? SNP dont like it because it would tie them to UK fiscal policy through the Bank of England, my view is that would be fair enough as long as it wasnt for more than say 5 years. One of the assumptions is that a Scotland inside the EU would attract Uk based companies that want to trade with the single market. Thats fair enough I think but you do touch on the biggest challenge for an independent Scotland - how to increase revenues to fund its current deficit and become as prosperous as the other similarly sized independent nations the report compares. Scotland needs to attract new business and new immigrants that will become tax payers. Now there has been hee haw chance of doing that in the last year but the report was written in 2018 and I see very little evidence that any policies have been put in place to allow that to happen prior to independence.

Obviously Covid will have significant ramifications on all these projections.

Where was the statement re the necessity of the barnett formulae mate?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Polls look good for an out vote so she wants another referendum... apparently democracy in action.

Democracy in action would be to have a referendum every 5/10 years not when it suits and strangely they'd probably get their goal of independence if England had a vote too but all too blind to see that.

Ain't that the truth. England seems quite keen on isolation.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

So a report like that has to be grounded in the present fact and then project forward using assumptions that are always going to be up for challenge.

Why do you think keeping the pound would be difficult? SNP dont like it because it would tie them to UK fiscal policy through the Bank of England, my view is that would be fair enough as long as it wasnt for more than say 5 years. One of the assumptions is that a Scotland inside the EU would attract Uk based companies that want to trade with the single market. Thats fair enough I think but you do touch on the biggest challenge for an independent Scotland - how to increase revenues to fund its current deficit and become as prosperous as the other similarly sized independent nations the report compares. Scotland needs to attract new business and new immigrants that will become tax payers. Now there has been hee haw chance of doing that in the last year but the report was written in 2018 and I see very little evidence that any policies have been put in place to allow that to happen prior to independence.

Obviously Covid will have significant ramifications on all these projections.

Where was the statement re the necessity of the barnett formulae mate?

Good points. Regarding the pound, I'm no fiscal expert, but would the BOE
be happy supporting a foreign nation?
There was no statement on Barnett, that was my take on the points mentioned, ie; their tax take covers welfare and public spending, (if I heard it correctly). So if Scotland rakes in enough now, why is support needed?

 

[west didsblue]

So a report like that has to be grounded in the present fact and then project forward using assumptions that are always going to be up for challenge.

Why do you think keeping the pound would be difficult? SNP dont like it because it would tie them to UK fiscal policy through the Bank of England, my view is that would be fair enough as long as it wasnt for more than say 5 years. One of the assumptions is that a Scotland inside the EU would attract Uk based companies that want to trade with the single market. Thats fair enough I think but you do touch on the biggest challenge for an independent Scotland - how to increase revenues to fund its current deficit and become as prosperous as the other similarly sized independent nations the report compares. Scotland needs to attract new business and new immigrants that will become tax payers. Now there has been hee haw chance of doing that in the last year but the report was written in 2018 and I see very little evidence that any policies have been put in place to allow that to happen prior to independence.

Obviously Covid will have significant ramifications on all these projections.

Where was the statement re the necessity of the barnett formulae mate?

As long as the UK has been London centric, there has been a brain drain from the regions (including the other nations). An independent Scotland with a clear path to EU membership would have a very good chance of reversing that and thus improve its long term economic prospects. There would be a tough few years but if I lived there I'd be voting for it. I'd be well fucked off with how the Westminster government treated Scotland if I had a vested interest. In fact, as a resident of the North West, right now I'd vote to secede from the UK and join an independent Scotland given the chance. It's not what I really want because I am proud to be British and English, and in an ideal world I'd like to see a Westminster government that represented the whole country and not just its mates. The independence question would then go away. The problem is there seems to be far too many people living outside the major population centres of England who have this bizarre vision of English exceptionalism who will keep us on this road to isolation and diminished circumstances. The government know this and have tapped into it to further the agenda of their backers. There are some areas where England is exceptional, but having the ability to run a country with barriers to its neighbours isn't one of them and isn't something we should be aspiring to. I am not advocating rejoining the EU anytime soon but we need to recognise that the EU is collectively by far our most important trading partner and quibbling about the price of fish while major industries face oblivion isn't doing us any favours. All to protect a few offshore tax havens from scrutiny.

 

[west didsblue]

Good points. Regarding the pound, I'm no fiscal expert, but would the BOE
be happy supporting a foreign nation?
There was no statement on Barnett, that was my take on the points mentioned, ie; their tax take covers welfare and public spending, (if I heard it correctly). So if Scotland rakes in enough now, why is support needed?

The BoE wouldn't need to provide support. There's no shortage of examples of countries that use the US dollar without being supported by the Federal Reserve. Scotland would be no different. The downside for Scotland is that BoE and UK fiscal policy would no longer take into account their needs so it would only be viable for the short term unless the economies remain aligned, which would be unlikely if Scotland joined the EU.

 

[Ban-jani]

As long as the UK has been London centric, there has been a brain drain from the regions (including the other nations). An independent Scotland with a clear path to EU membership would have a very good chance of reversing that and thus improve its long term economic prospects. There would be a tough few years but if I lived there I'd be voting for it. I'd be well fucked off with how the Westminster government treated Scotland if I had a vested interest. In fact, as a resident of the North West, right now I'd vote to secede from the UK and join an independent Scotland given the chance. It's not what I really want because I am proud to be British and English, and in an ideal world I'd like to see a Westminster government that represented the whole country and not just its mates. The independence question would then go away. The problem is there seems to be far too many people living outside the major population centres of England who have this bizarre vision of English exceptionalism who will keep us on this road to isolation and diminished circumstances. The government know this and have tapped into it to further the agenda of their backers. There are some areas where England is exceptional, but having the ability to run a country with barriers to its neighbours isn't one of them and isn't something we should be aspiring to. I am not advocating rejoining the EU anytime soon but we need to recognise that the EU is collectively by far our most important trading partner and quibbling about the price of fish while major industries face oblivion isn't doing us any favours. All to protect a few offshore tax havens from scrutiny.

The economic impacts of Scotland going it alone would make Brexit look like a fart in a hurricane. You think there’s a brain drain now? Just wait until every major company moves south of the border, when Scotland is inevitably waiting years for EU membership.

It’ll be a disaster but a part of me is sick of the SNP and it’s supporters and wants to see it fail. The other part of me sees a lot of decent people in Scotland who will suffer as a result and therefore that part of me takes precedent over showing the SNP up as the liars they are.