The Scottish Politics thread

[west didsblue]

The economic impacts of Scotland going it alone would make Brexit look like a fart in a hurricane. You think there’s a brain drain now? Just wait until every major company moves south of the border, when Scotland is inevitably waiting years for EU membership.

It’ll be a disaster but a part of me is sick of the SNP and it’s supporters and wants to see it fail. The other part of me sees a lot of decent people in Scotland who will suffer as a result and therefore that part of me takes precedent over showing the SNP up as the liars they are.

If companies in Scotland are going to relocate it won't be to Brexit England.

It's just your opinion that Scotland would have to wait years for EU membership. I personally think that it would be much easier for Scotland to join the EU than a similar sized country in Eastern Europe and I suspect they would be fast tracked. The EU would probably see it as a strategic benefit having Scotland as a member in order to get a back door into the English market. I suspect there would be an even bigger political imperative to solve the England Scotland border problems than there is for Ireland. It would also be easier as it only has two major border crossings and a handful of minor ones, and no history of violence if infrastructure appears.

 

[Saddleworth2]

As long as the UK has been London centric, there has been a brain drain from the regions (including the other nations). An independent Scotland with a clear path to EU membership would have a very good chance of reversing that and thus improve its long term economic prospects. There would be a tough few years but if I lived there I'd be voting for it. I'd be well fucked off with how the Westminster government treated Scotland if I had a vested interest. In fact, as a resident of the North West, right now I'd vote to secede from the UK and join an independent Scotland given the chance. It's not what I really want because I am proud to be British and English, and in an ideal world I'd like to see a Westminster government that represented the whole country and not just its mates. The independence question would then go away. The problem is there seems to be far too many people living outside the major population centres of England who have this bizarre vision of English exceptionalism who will keep us on this road to isolation and diminished circumstances. The government know this and have tapped into it to further the agenda of their backers. There are some areas where England is exceptional, but having the ability to run a country with barriers to its neighbours isn't one of them and isn't something we should be aspiring to. I am not advocating rejoining the EU anytime soon but we need to recognise that the EU is collectively by far our most important trading partner and quibbling about the price of fish while major industries face oblivion isn't doing us any favours. All to protect a few offshore tax havens from scrutiny.

Yeah, I was proud to be British and Scottish too mate. The last couple of years have changed that. Put simply, all the difficulties and challenges that independence would undoubtedly bring look more attractive to me than being dictated to by the Tory party for the next 30 years.

 

[Ban-jani]

If companies in Scotland are going to relocate it won't be to Brexit England.

It's just your opinion that Scotland would have to wait years for EU membership. I personally think that it would be much easier for Scotland to join the EU than a similar sized country in Eastern Europe and I suspect they would be fast tracked. The EU would probably see it as a strategic benefit having Scotland as a member in order to get a back door into the English market. I suspect there would be an even bigger political imperative to solve the England Scotland border problems than there is for Ireland. It would also be easier as it only has two major border crossings and a handful of minor ones, and no history of violence if infrastructure appears.

They will if they have a bigger presence in England and smaller operations in Scotland.

Ive heard it from the horses mouth that one big bank wouldn’t have any Scottish operations if they leave the UK.

There’s a huge number of British businesses with some of their operations in Scotland and it’ll soon change if Scotland leaves the UK.

Don’t forgot that per population Scotland has more spent on it in terms of education, healthcare etc. And when they have to fund their defence and their public services themselves, that deficit which is already too high to join the EU will sky rocket - meaning a huge delay to joining the EU.

Even if it is fast tracked, it’ll be years not months. The quickest you can possibly do it is 3 years, based on past applications, this means for potentially a very significant time Scotland will be out of the UK and EU. They aren’t meeting the requirements to join in terms of deficit and debt now, never mind if all of the above happens, whilst taking their fair proportion of UK debt.

The only reason someone like you (and me), as a remainer, would support it is if you just hate Tories, there’s no way you can look at Brexit and think bad and look at Scottish independence and think good.

It’s worse than Brexit, it’s a bigger change and a bigger economic issue.

 

[Ban-jani]

Yeah, I was proud to be British and Scottish too mate. The last couple of years have changed that. Put simply, all the difficulties and challenges that independence would undoubtedly bring look more attractive to me than being dictated to by the Tory party for the next 30 years.

By dictated to you mean democratically elected, with your devolved Parliament making more local decisions (and bollocksing that up).

Listen to Andrew Neil this week, the SNP are a joke and it’s only through hatred of the Tories and being pissed off that they keep winning, that’s keeping independence as an idea going.

 

[Saddleworth2]

By dictated to you mean democratically elected, with your devolved Parliament making more local decisions (and bollocksing that up).

Listen to Andrew Neil this week, the SNP are a joke and it’s only through hatred of the Tories and being pissed off that they keep winning, that’s keeping independence as an idea going.

No, I mean dictated. The tories haven't been the most popular party in Scotland for over 60 years. I wont be responding further as our 'conversations' usually deteriorate pretty quickly.

 

[west didsblue]

They will if they have a bigger presence in England and smaller operations in Scotland.

Ive heard it from the horses mouth that one big bank wouldn’t have any Scottish operations if they leave the UK.

There’s a huge number of British businesses with some of their operations in Scotland and it’ll soon change if Scotland leaves the UK.

Don’t forgot that per population Scotland has more spent on it in terms of education, healthcare etc. And when they have to fund their defence and their public services themselves, that deficit which is already too high to join the EU will sky rocket - meaning a huge delay to joining the EU.

Even if it is fast tracked, it’ll be years not months. The quickest you can possibly do it is 3 years, based on past applications, this means for potentially a very significant time Scotland will be out of the UK and EU. They aren’t meeting the requirements to join in terms of deficit and debt now, never mind if all of the above happens, whilst taking their fair proportion of UK debt.

The only reason someone like you (and me), as a remainer, would support it is if you just hate Tories, there’s no way you can look at Brexit and think bad and look at Scottish independence and think good.

It’s worse than Brexit, it’s a bigger change and a bigger economic issue.

Nothing to do with hating the Tories. It's to do with the Westminster government reneging on their promises in 2014, and ignoring the outcome in Scotland in 2016. If I was Scottish that's what would piss me off most.
Whilst most of us accept that as a country we voted to leave the EU, we didn't vote to leave the EU on the terms that the government seems intent on pushing through which is based on the version of Brexit that suits their backers and the Daily Express readers, not the majority of the population.
An equitable Withdrawal Agreement and FTA that recognised the closeness of the vote and effectively kept the UK in the EEA as promised by the Leave campaign would have headed off all this nationalism.

 

[Ban-jani]

No, I mean dictated. The tories haven't been the most popular party in Scotland for over 60 years. I wont be responding further as our 'conversations' usually deteriorate pretty quickly.

Scotland voted to stay a member of the UK in 2014 and with that remain under a Tory Government, albeit coalition and then that meant they’d vote as per everyone else for a party to lead.

The Scottish have more say in their own affairs than I do, as someone who didn’t vote Tory but has a Tory MP. I don’t have devolution and have less spent on me compared to a Scottish person.

Our conversations don’t need to descend into anything if we just stick to our opinions without being personal.

 

[Ban-jani]

Nothing to do with hating the Tories. It's to do with the Westminster government reneging on their promises in 2014, and ignoring the outcome in Scotland in 2016. If I was Scottish that's what would piss me off most.
Whilst most of us accept that as a country we voted to leave the EU, we didn't vote to leave the EU on the terms that the government seems intent on pushing through which is based on the version of Brexit that suits their backers and the Daily Express readers, not the majority of the population.
An equitable Withdrawal Agreement and FTA that recognised the closeness of the vote and effectively kept the UK in the EEA as promised by the Leave campaign would have headed off all this nationalism.

Scotland voted to stay in the UK in 2016, whatever happens following that is inconsequential when it comes to the vote of Brexit. They’re a member of the UK and therefore are treated as such.

Once Brexit has settled down, in terms of a few years of us securing deals and we know what the environment looks like, they should have another vote but they’ve got no right to scupper the rest of the UK’s trade deals by holding one in the middle of all our negotiations.

 

[west didsblue]

Scotland voted to stay in the UK in 2016, whatever happens following that is inconsequential when it comes to the vote of Brexit. They’re a member of the UK and therefore are treated as such.

Once Brexit has settled down, in terms of a few years of us securing deals and we know what the environment looks like, they should have another vote but they’ve got no right to scupper the rest of the UK’s trade deals by holding one in the middle of all our negotiations.

I thought Brexit was supposed to be done. That’s what we, as a nation, voted for. Now you’re saying it’s going to go on for years.
Who’d have guessed.

 

[joe123]

As long as Scotland keeps returning a party running on an independence ticket in landslide measures, they've every right to ask the question, and the May elections will be interesting as a bellwether for how popular independence will be. Post-Brexit vote, it's clear that economic concern doesn't trump emotion, so would whole heartedly support them going their own way and being properly governed by who they as a country vote for, rather than the shower of shit we enforce on them.