The Scottish Politics thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It certainly will.

It already has.

I don't mean brexit itself, but rather the relative success / difficulties of extracting yourselves from a union. Basically, I'm not sure banging on about how impossible and detrimental brexit is will instill confidence in going it alone. I realise rejoining the EU is part of the plan, but it seems there may be a few years at least in the wilderness between independence from the UK and that happening. The biggest argument for that being ok would actually be the UK prospering outside the EU as an indy state.

 

[Magicpole]

Not sure showing brexit is a disaster will help the indy cause tbh?

Yes it will. It is already fucking us up, we voted 62% to remain and want back in. As time goes on and the full extent of how disastrous this is, economically, socially and every other way, people will realise and we won't console ourselves by conning ourselves like the gammons, who love it because it gets rid of foreigners that it's great. It's a disaster, give it a year at least and it won't just be us wanting to return. But, having said that, after these latest election results in England you seem to have too many people who refuse to see utter ineptitude. And as long as the Tories keep quoting Churchill and waving the flag, there are enough twats to keep them in power. I pity the fools. But I pity the rest of you who aren't fucking idiots, more. A shit show.

 

[Coatigan]

I don't mean brexit itself, but rather the relative success / difficulties of extracting yourselves from a union. Basically, I'm not sure banging on about how impossible and detrimental brexit is will instill confidence in going it alone. I realise rejoining the EU is part of the plan, but it seems there may be a few years at least in the wilderness between independence from the UK and that happening. The biggest argument for that being ok would actually be the UK prospering outside the EU as an indy state.

I know what you meant. As fair as your point is, I stand by my answer.

 

[Coatigan]

Yes it will. It is already fucking us up, we voted 62% to remain and want back in. As time goes on and the full extent of how disastrous this is, economically, socially and every other way, people will realise and we won't console ourselves by conning ourselves like the gammons, who love it because it gets rid of foreigners that it's great. It's a disaster, give it a year at least and it won't just be us wanting to return. But, having said that, after these latest election results in England you seem to have too many people who refuse to see utter ineptitude. And as long as the Tories keep quoting Churchill and waving the flag, there are enough twats to keep them in power. I pity the fools. But I pity the rest of you who aren't fucking idiots, more. A shit show.

And that is just the tangible and practical side of it.

There is also just the basic principle, and the fact it happened at all which kills off any sentimentality over the union.

 

[mat]

Boris must think Sturgeon is a stupid as he is.

She's not going to want to join him in a political stunt where Tory K and Peston proclaim him as saviour of the union after having a cup of tea and biscuits at a castle or some other stately home borrowed for good PR.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Some further numbers, since you are now an expert on the system.

The snp won 62 seats out of 73 via the first vote. Torries 5, libdems 4, labour 2.
In terms of first vote, total fucking landslide.

Via the second vote then, out of the 56 snp got only a further 2. The Tories 26, libdems 0, labour 20 and greens 8.

Makes it look like the snp did badly at regionals, they didn't, they simply cant win those though as the wins at constituency level prevent it.

You can add those up yourself for the final tally, if it is of interest.

Don’t know if you’re having a go at me or not. I take it that Scottish people are happy with the system. That’s all that matters.

I am genuinely interested, particularly in the possibility of a referendum which personally I think would have knock on consequences for NI/Ireland, if Scotland did indeed choose to leave the UK.

The politics on these islands is all intertwined and very difficult to extricate yourself from what happens in the neighbourhood next to you.

 

[Coatigan]

Don’t know if you’re having a go at me or not. I take it that Scottish people are happy with the system. That’s all that matters.

I am genuinely interested, particularly in the possibility of a referendum which personally I think would have knock on consequences for NI/Ireland, if Scotland did indeed choose to leave the UK.

The politics on these islands is all intertwined and very difficult to extricate yourself from what happens in the neighbourhood next to you.

I was not in the slightest (having a go). it was merely a nod to the fact we have had discussions on it thats all.

I agree btw. On the politics being intertwined. And Brexit throwing the whole thing all up into the air.


Edit, Reading it back, was it the 'expert' line that you took to be having a go? I can now maybe see how it might have come off like that. Was not the intention at all though. I'm Glad you asked, took the time to understand it, and why I took the time to try answer whatever i thought i could.

 

[Gabriel]

Haven’t heard the ‘once in a generation’ trope aired by any Westminster politicians, so presumably that can now be consigned to history.

 

[hgblue]

I fail to see the argument against Scotland having a referendum? If Scotland doesn’t want to be part of the union I’d rather they left to be honest.

 

[Coatigan]

Haven’t heard the ‘once in a generation’ trope aired by any Westminster politicians, so presumably that can now be consigned to history.

It has been replaced by 'now is not the time'.

Meaning, 'you can fuck of if you want to, once i'm not the PM taking the responsibility for it'.

 

[Magicpole]

Boris must think Sturgeon is a stupid as he is.

She's not going to want to join him in a political stunt where Tory K and Peston proclaim him as saviour of the union after having a cup of tea and biscuits at a castle or some other stately home borrowed for good PR.

She should tell him to bolt.

I don't mean brexit itself, but rather the relative success / difficulties of extracting yourselves from a union. Basically, I'm not sure banging on about how impossible and detrimental brexit is will instill confidence in going it alone. I realise rejoining the EU is part of the plan, but it seems there may be a few years at least in the wilderness between independence from the UK and that happening. The biggest argument for that being ok would actually be the UK prospering outside the EU as an indy state.

The EU are already discussing how a member country who voted overwhelmingly to stay was forced out. A Norwegian politician is already talking about inviting Scotland as a

I fail to see the argument against Scotland having a referendum? If Scotland doesn’t want to be part of the union I’d rather they left to be honest.

Constant Tory rule, Brexit, Labour suicide squad, Johnson's sleaze gov getting a landslide again after these last two years. Who in their right mind woukd want to stay? We have 500,000 English people here right now, if we do we will see that number soar. We need immigration, so pack your bags and start looking for a house.:) All welcome.

 

[Gabriel]

It has been replaced by 'now is not the time'.

Meaning, 'you can fuck of if you want to, once i'm not the PM taking the responsibility for it'.

Yes , the terminology seems to be more nuanced with ‘after the Covid crisis’ (Sturgeon) and ‘after the Covid recovery’ (Westminster). Johnson, however, has already delayed talk of a public inquiry into Covid, but that cannot be delayed indefinitely, so once that receives the green light, then the SNP will be able to use that as the flag to prepare the legislation for a second referendum, perhaps to be held in 2023-2024.

 

[hgblue]

She should tell him to bolt.
The EU are already discussing how a member country who voted overwhelmingly to stay was forced out. A Norwegian politician is already talking about inviting Scotland as a
Constant Tory rule, Brexit, Labour suicide squad, Johnson's sleaze gov getting a landslide again after these last two years. Who in their right mind woukd want to stay? We have 500,000 English people here right now, if we do we will see that number soar. We need immigration, so pack your bags and start looking for a house.:) All welcome.

I’d genuinely wish you well if you left, we’d have the consolation of losing 60 whinging lefty MPs. I used to be a strong Unionist but I’m coming around to the idea ;)

 

[Coatigan]

Yes , the terminology seems to be more nuanced with ‘after the Covid crisis’ (Sturgeon) and ‘after the Covid recovery’ (Westminster). Johnson, however, has already delayed talk of a public inquiry into Covid, but that cannot be delayed indefinitely, so once that receives the green light, then the SNP will be able to use that as the flag to prepare the legislation for a second referendum, perhaps to be held in 2023-2024.

Late 2023 is most likely, I would guess. 2024 is probably out of the question, due to the general election. Anything before 2023 probably too soon. Anything after 2024 likely (for the snp) too late.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Let the rest of the UK vote on it then. Can’t understand why the English don’t have a say as it affects us too. That would get them over the line.

What’s the point of it?

Majority of England tell the Scottish they can't leave... would only serve as moral justification for independence by unilateral means.

Majority of England tell the Scots they have to leave, Scottish can blame England for being pushed over the cliff against their will and don't have to take responsibility for their own failures. It would create a hostile atmosphere between the two territories and make cross-border trade, travel etc more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[manchester blue]

What’s the point of it?

Majority of England tell the Scottish they can't leave... would only serve as moral justification for independence by unilateral means.

Majority of England tell the Scots they have to leave, Scottish can blame England for being pushed over the cliff against their will and don't have to take responsibility for their own failures. It would create a hostile atmosphere between the two territories and make cross-border trade, travel etc more difficult than it needs to be.

It was a bit tongue in cheek really but we do have a stake in it.

 

[Magicpole]

I’d genuinely wish you well if you left, we’d have the consolation of losing 60 whinging lefty MPs. I used to be a strong Unionist but I’m coming around to the idea ;)

Glad for the support. One caveat though, when we do it and put in more fair policies, then all the right wing, media bullshit about how it couldn't work, will have many in England demanding the same. We love to help people like us, and there are millions of them in England.

 

[Magicpole]

Late 2023 is most likely, I would guess. 2024 is probably out of the question, due to the general election. Anything before 2023 probably too soon. Anything after 2024 likely (for the snp) too late.

Mid 2023, June for me. . Nice sunny day, vote , celebrate.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Majority of England tell the Scottish they can't leave... would only serve as moral justification for independence by unilateral means.

Majority of England tell the Scots they have to leave, Scottish can blame England for being pushed over the cliff against their will and don't have to take responsibility for their own failures. It would create a hostile atmosphere between the two territories and make cross-border trade, travel etc more difficult than it needs to be.

Wait until the paratroopers are sent into Glasgow to marshal the fallout.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I was not in the slightest (having a go). it was merely a nod to the fact we have had discussions on it thats all.

I agree btw. On the politics being intertwined. And Brexit throwing the whole thing all up into the air.


Edit, Reading it back, was it the 'expert' line that you took to be having a go? I can now maybe see how it might have come off like that. Was not the intention at all though. I'm Glad you asked, took the time to understand it, and why I took the time to try answer whatever i thought i could.

No bother. It’s hard to gauge tone sometimes. I really didn’t expect any nastiness to be honest. Just checking if I had overstepped the mark regarding my opinion on PR.