The Scottish Politics thread

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blueinsa said:
We have a SNP government in charge of virtually everything domestically that effects our daily lives.

I’m British English and proud of it. My kids are Scottish. My wife is South African.

We are incredibly happy living and working in Scotland and contributing to the country we call home.

Monarchy? No issue with it. Flags? Love them, big swirly things in the wind. 4 flag poles in the garden and we have the Union Jack, South African national flag, St Andrews and St George flying proudly.

Does that make me a flag shagger?
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Not at all. I am happy you are here and enjoying living here. Although flagpoles in the garden aren’t my thing, you crack on. We don’t have the economic levers to do what countries around the world do. We can’t borrow to invest. We don’t control investment. We don’t control benefits. We now can raise taxes but that’s not enough for a long term economic strategy. We couldn’t prevent damage to us through Brexit. We don’t control our natural resources. We can’t control immigration which our economy needs. I could go on but you have a view I absolutely disagree with.
 
bluetoby said:
Can we have a referendum and vote the Sottish out off the union
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Go for it. You voted for Brexit so economic dussster decisions are second nature to you. If I were English I wouldn’t want us to leave because it will cost you. Being spoon fed we are a burden will soon be shown to be as much a lie as £350m a week to the NHS. That’s why they absolutely shit a brick and try and terrify people here. If we were that much of a burden the Establishment would have told us to fuck of years ago. So, garner support and vote is out by all means.
 

Magicpole said:
Go for it. You voted for Brexit so economic dussster decisions are second nature to you. If I were English I wouldn’t want us to leave because it will cost you. Being spoon fed we are a burden will soon be shown to be as much a lie as £350m a week to the NHS. That’s why they absolutely shit a brick and try and terrify people here. If we were that much of a burden the Establishment would have told us to fuck of years ago. So, garner support and vote is out by all means.
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didn't say which way I would vote just saying shouldn't the rest of us get a say or would that not be democratic
 
For me any union of people can only continue if the people wish it to..... Yes Scotland had a referendum relatively recently but.... The UK they voted for in 2014 is a world away from the UK they have in 2022, thus I think they have a really strong case for another vote on the topic. Personally I hope they stay the UK would be weaker without them(and more right-wing), but that's not my call. The very best part of a possible Scottish Independence would be we could finally kill off the talk of Rangers and Celtic joining the Premier League!
 
bluetoby said:
didn't say which way I would vote just saying shouldn't the rest of us get a say or would that not be democratic
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The Union is basically a political marriage of equals. If someone is in a marriage and their partner says they wish to leave, then they can plead their case for the partner to remain, but ultimately it's the partner's decision whether to stay or go.
 
bluetoby said:
didn't say which way I would vote just saying shouldn't the rest of us get a say or would that not be democratic
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Why should you get a say in whether we want independence? How could that he democratic? If you want to move here you get a say as nearly 500,000 English people who reside here will. So, short answer is no that wouldn’t be democratic as you will be voting to determine an outcome for a country you don’t live in. There are 50m English 5m of us. I’m not a mathematician, but even I can see an issue. If England wanted to go it alone would we get a vote? No, because we aren’t English.

Did English people get a say in all the countries we colonised who wanted Independence? And so far not one of them want to change that and apart from India we are richer than all of them.
 
bluetoby said:
didn't say which way I would vote just saying shouldn't the rest of us get a say or would that not be democratic
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No. Pointless including the larger electorate in a referendum on the question of whether the smaller member can leave the union.

If you meant whether we can hold a vote just for the English. What is the rationale for that?

There is only one country that was unilaterally expelled from a union/federation (Singapore from Malaysia, for policies that discriminated against the Malay ethnic group).
 
DontLookBackInAnger said:
For me any union of people can only continue if the people wish it to..... Yes Scotland had a referendum relatively recently but.... The UK they voted for in 2014 is a world away from the UK they have in 2022, thus I think they have a really strong case for another vote on the topic. Personally I hope they stay the UK would be weaker without them(and more right-wing), but that's not my call. The very best part of a possible Scottish Independence would be we could finally kill off the talk of Rangers and Celtic joining the Premier League!
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We have a cast iron case. SNP put in their manifesto that a vote for them as Gov means a referendum. We voted them in and they have an absolute right to carry out their manifesto. Bellend said he had the manifesto backing for Brexit. How on earth can he now say, well that’s different? Just watched the news here where a Scottish Labour woman and her Libdem pal totally ignoring democratic rights of ours. I fucking detest Labour. If their Project Fears work again they will be once again trounced thereafter.

If they bastards don’t want a referendum then win the election. That’s democracy.
 
Magicpole said:
Not at all. I am happy you are here and enjoying living here. Although flagpoles in the garden aren’t my thing, you crack on. We don’t have the economic levers to do what countries around the world do. We can’t borrow to invest. We don’t control investment. We don’t control benefits. We now can raise taxes but that’s not enough for a long term economic strategy. We couldn’t prevent damage to us through Brexit. We don’t control our natural resources. We can’t control immigration which our economy needs. I could go on but you have a view I absolutely disagree with.
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Why do you want to control immigration?
 
Magicpole said:
Define a lot? There is no way there was anywhere near the rush to bunting down south. I was in Haddington for lunch on the Saturday and overheard one table bemoaning they saw nothing. I work in Edinburgh and didn’t see a thing. I heard the toffs in Morningside had a couple, but they are mostly English. It was a sodden squib up here.
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It's not all about bunting. We celebrated it. Plenty neighbours too. Without bunting. It was good. There was no spite or point proving, just marking the occasion. There was no disdain from openly independence supporting households or individuals either, nor did it feel like anyone was measuring the level of celebration to make or unmake a point. Everyone did what they felt like, as it should be. And hopefully will always be whichever way the country goes forward.
 
hedkandi said:
Why do you want to control immigration?
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Scotland’s population is expected to grow by only 2.5% by 2043, and that rise is largely based on migration into the country. Now that it’s finally addressing its drug, alcohol, and dietary problems, it might yet see an increase in life expectancy, but it still requires more migrants to come and work and help pay taxes. However, immigration is a reserved power at Westminster, so it’s one of the levers Holyrood cannot pull to effect a change in direction.
 
Coatigan said:
It's not all about bunting. We celebrated it. Plenty neighbours too. Without bunting. It was good. There was no spite or point proving, just marking the occasion. There was no disdain from openly independence supporting households or individuals either, nor did it feel like anyone was measuring the level of celebration to make or unmake a point. Everyone did what they felt like, as it should be. And hopefully will always be whichever way the country goes forward.
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I have already said I don’t have a problem with Liz. She’s ok and funny, done a grand job etc.
 
Give Scotland another referendum, with a caveat that if the results are remain in the union then another ref cannot be called for 25 years.

That should galvanised the indy voters too lazy to go out and vote as most won't get another chance if they don't
 
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