The Scottish Politics thread

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Alan Harper's Tash said:
True. It’d be a push to call it a political party, but I’m not sure what you’d call them beyond an organisation/firm.
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Wasn't really being serious, but I've always thought a federal UK was the ideal, and if it had been done way back, things like Independence, Brexit would never have caused the problems they have/will.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I wouldnt says it hot under the collar and certainly nothing to do with imperialism (wishful thinking there?)

Maybe it's because we (England) are always made to play second fiddle to the other nations by our esteemed politicians, always the least money spent and worst representation with no say on whether we would want to be separate from Scotland. Just a thought?
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So you know I agree with you in terms of representation. I think there might well be regional parliaments in England as Westminster is far too SE/London centric.

England is two countries though. SE/London where most of the money flows to and the rest. I quite simply believe the Union should be one of consent. If any party no longer wants to be a part of it, they should be able to withdraw. At present there is no legal path for Scotland to gain independence other than through Westminsters consent.

Anyway any talk of independence is totally pointless as I can’t see it happening anytime soon.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
So you know I agree with you in terms of representation. I think there might well be regional parliaments in England as Westminster is far too SE/London centric.

England is two countries though. SE/London where most of the money flows to and the rest. I quite simply believe the Union should be one of consent. If any party no longer wants to be a part of it, they should be able to withdraw. At present there is no legal path for Scotland to gain independence other than through Westminsters consent.

Anyway any talk of independence is totally pointless as I can’t see it happening anytime soon.
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England isn't two countries tho is it? So it's a completely pointless analogy. I realise why you would want to bring that into the conversation tho.

I agree with your last point, but I believe this is more likely due to your nationalist party having shot itself in the foot in recent years. Trust in them has been severely damaged.
 
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Alan Harper's Tash said:
I’d forgotten about that lot. Garry Bushell was their most “successful” candidate and they merged with Veritas!
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Veritas merged into them not the other way round. They are still around.

UKIP and BNP were effectively English National parties because they never got any of support of note in the other nations of the union.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
England isn't two countries tho is it? So it's a completely pointless analogy. I realise why you would want to bring that into the conversation tho.

I agree with your last point tho, but I believe this is more likely due to your nationalist party having shot itself in the foot in recent years. Trust in them has been severely damaged.
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Not really, SNP support has fallen,partly inevitable after so long in power. Support for independence has remained constant roughly 50/50 discounting don’t knows for a few years now.
 
blueparrot said:
Not really, SNP support has fallen,partly inevitable after so long in power. Support for independence has remained constant roughly 50/50 discounting don’t knows for a few years now.
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Opinion polling on Scottish independence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

This looks like the red ie No is more dominant in recent times. Also polls don't tell the true tale. Weren't the polls showing more favourable results to wards independence before the referendum?
 
Churchlawtonblue said:

Opinion polling on Scottish independence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

This looks like the red ie No is more dominant in recent times. Also polls don't tell the true tale. Weren't the polls showing more favourable results to wards independence before the referendum?
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Yes, but they are both hovering around the mid 40s, falling SNP support hasn’t really shifted that, which was my point. Meaning some of those that have shifted support to labour mainly, still support independence. Or not all independence supporters were SNP supporters, and not all SNP voters were independence supporters, both things are probably true.
Simply put SNP vote share isn’t directly proportional to independence support.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
England isn't two countries tho is it? So it's a completely pointless analogy. I realise why you would want to bring that into the conversation tho.

I agree with your last point, but I believe this is more likely due to your nationalist party having shot itself in the foot in recent years. Trust in them has been severely damaged.
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Yes and no on your second paragraph. Party has shot itself in the foot, and with that their ability to deliver or even pursue it, in the state they are in. But the appetite for it does not seem to have reduced. Or significantly grown to a point that might make it meaningful either.
 
blueparrot said:
Yes, but they are both hovering around the mid 40s, falling SNP support hasn’t really shifted that, which was my point. Meaning some of those that have shifted support to labour mainly, still support independence. Or not all independence supporters were SNP supporters, and not all SNP voters were independence supporters, both things are probably true.
Simply put SNP vote share isn’t directly proportional to independence support.
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Well it looks as if support for independence has dropped to me based on those polls.
 
Just heard Ian Blackford saying there isn't a reason to go to the polls despite his party deciding on yet another new first minister . When he was vermently calling for one when Truss stood down. What a hypocrite. Lol
 
Churchlawtonblue said:

Opinion polling on Scottish independence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

This looks like the red ie No is more dominant in recent times. Also polls don't tell the true tale. Weren't the polls showing more favourable results to wards independence before the referendum?
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No, not at all. Independence was polling at 15% when the referendum was announced.l and the whole thing started. Rose steadily to 45%. There was a one off 'spike' to about 52% the week before the vote, one single anomaly. Which led to a rushed and panicked 'promise', which saw it drop.

Scotland is a bit stuck with it now. Independence will never be off the table. But whether there will ever be a real majority for it who knows. That will either hinge on the union becoming so bad that there is no other choice (well underway with that, well done there Westminster and Brexit voters). Or there is a real positive case made for it otherwise. Probably unlikely in the foreseeable.

In hindsight, 2014 would have been the best moment for it to happen, and better than any other moment that has existed since, or probably will again in ages.
 
blueparrot said:
Not really, SNP support has fallen,partly inevitable after so long in power. Support for independence has remained constant roughly 50/50 discounting don’t knows for a few years now.
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Too long in power FFS

Nothing to do with the criminality running right through the heart of the party!!

Nothing to do with the former justice minister and now former first ministers own brother in law being a high level smack dealer!!

Nothing to do with broken promises like the dualing of the A 9! The ferry fiasco! The fact we pay higher taxes than anyone else in the UK but have poorer performing public services! Aww fuck I could go on and on with the failings of the crackpots you elected but why bother. You deserve everything you get … or don’t get from that party. Unfortunately people like myself are funding this nonsense
 
No.8 said:
Too long in power FFS

Nothing to do with the criminality running right through the heart of the party!!

Nothing to do with the former justice minister and now former first ministers own brother in law being a high level smack dealer!!

Nothing to do with broken promises like the dualing of the A 9! The ferry fiasco! The fact we pay higher taxes than anyone else in the UK but have poorer performing public services! Aww fuck I could go on and on with the failings of the crackpots you elected but why bother. You deserve everything you get … or don’t get from that party. Unfortunately people like myself are funding this nonsense
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All of which is pretty inevitable for a party in power for a long long time ;)
 
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