The Torino - Man City link....

Lucky Toma said:
I put this up recently on another thread so apologies to anyone who has already seen this.
But here's an article I wrote some time back concerning the Torino air crash....

On the 4th May 1949 a plane crashed into the cloudy peaks of the Superga mountain just outside of Turin. Of the thirty-one crew and passengers there were no survivors. Amongst the fatalities was Valerio Bacigalupo, a man known, with macabre irony, as 'the man with wings'. Another casualty was Ezio Loik, so solid and dependable he went by the nickname of 'the elephant'. Guglielmo 'il Barone' (the Baron) Gabetto also perished, along with his team-mate and good friend Eusebio Castigliano, who was widely and affectionately known as 'velvet leg' for his elegant playing style.
In purely footballing terms (and a tragedy of this scale renders such terms virtually irrelevant) perhaps the greatest sporting loss was a bullish thirty year old winger by the name of Valentino Mazzola. Undoubtedly one of the most gifted footballers of the 20th century and captain, and talisman, of the Grande Torino, Mazzola had everything. Sublime dribbling skills, an exquisite touch, adept in the air, and an all-round range of talents bestowed by an over-generous God. He could also, allegedly, jump higher than the crossbar from a standing start.
The plane was returning from Lisbon when bad weather and cruel fate intervened. Il Grande Torino, the finest club football side since the sport's inception, had been playing an exhibition match, parading their inventive skills and slick brilliance to an astonished Portuguese crowd. In fact, so in demand were they to showcase their talents abroad, the club president was toying with the idea of building two teams - one to compete in the domestic league, the other to undertake tours of international friendlies.

Guglielmo 'il Barone' Gabetto was the team's main striker, yet he disliked poaching easy goals.
'If it is not difficult, I am not interested in scoring'. Consequently, he only seemed to score from impossible angles, and each goal was seen by the fans as a 'little miracle'.

Every single player, every member of the coaching staff, every reserve, medic, kit man, and club director perished on the Superga peak. Bar one. A competent full-back named Saura Toma. Toma had injured his left knee in a match leading up to the fateful flight and doctors decreed that he stay home and rest, an arbitrary decision that saved his life. The following season he bravely represented Torino for a further fourteen games, surrounded by shell-shocked, unfamiliar youth players drafted in to replace their idols in a desperate, ultimately futile, attempt to rebuild the club from ashes. Toma dutifully did what he could before immense grief and guilt brought a promising career to a premature end.
His guilt was a uniquely personal anguish but the grief was shared by millions. The tragedy unleashed a tumultuous outpouring of emotion on a scale rarely before seen. Just four years earlier the already dead body of Mussolini swung in a Milan piazza. Prior to that came the devastating horrors of war. This was a nation hardened to life's extremities, yet the accident shook Italy to its marrow and its soul.
It is difficult to equate Il Grande Torino with any successful modern team, to form a clearer understanding as to just how good they were. To fully impact just how cataclysmic and monumental the disaster was. The 21st century Manchester United, even the celestial Real Madrid, do not come close to matching Torino's dominance and brilliance over an entire footballing era. Ten of their players were Italian national regulars. They had won the previous four Serie A titles at a canter and were on their way to clinching a fifth before the tragedy curtailed their wondrous adventure. Moreover, they perfectly captured the spirit of the times in post-war Italy, mirroring the fledgling optimism after the mighty fall of fascism and an oppressive political climate. Their celebratory, insouciant verve carried a significant cultural resonance with the people; to the beleaguered masses eleven players in burgundy shirts were validating a new democratic age every Sunday afternoon. Even their tactics reflected a cultural symmetry, a revolutionary W-M system, half-inched from Britain, and distrusted by other teams from the peninsula, it is, in its purest form, a 3-2-5 formation. That's right, FIVE attacking players.

At the player's funerals the fifth successive Scudetto was accorded to the club even though four fixtures remained. After a period of national mourning these games were reluctantly played out at the behest of the league's authorities. Torino were only able to call upon their callow youth team and so, in an act of defiance to the game's rulers, and solidarity and respect to Torino, their opponents - Genoa, Palermo, Sampdoria, and Fiorentina - also sent out their youth teams.

The Superga tragedy is unparalleled in sporting history. Of course there was Munich a decade later, an equally magnificent set of players and potential wiped out in one horrific moment, but, unlike United, Torino have never truly recovered. In the sixties the all-powerful Agnelli family - owners of Fiat - took control of their once inferior arch-rivals Juventus and, with substantial bankrolling, paved the way for a black-and-white dominance for many years to come. In 1959 Torino's charismatic Filadelfia stadium - that had showcased Mazzola's sublime talent, echoed the thunderous chants of 'Toro, Toro', and shook to Rigamonti's uncompromising tackles - was abandoned due to crippling financial problems. A proposal was tentatively put forward for a communal ground to be shared with the rising Juve, which later became the imposing Delle Alpi stadium. Sadly, Torino, often languishing in Serie B, with bankruptcy an ever-present shadow, soon began to resemble its poor tenants.
This is still the case. In fact, never more so. The last fifty years have brought little but dispiriting, prolonged spells in the lower leagues and fraught, top-flight relegation campaigns.
Torino's existence has become largely one of struggle, toil and survival. A once mighty club is now a sleeping, some might say comotosed, giant. But it is a giant with a rich history steeped in silverware, mythology and bygone excellence.
It is a history that should never be forgotten.

At half-time Torino were leading 7-0. The players agreed in the changing room that any more goals would appear arrogant and, not wanting to inflict further humiliation on their Roma opponents (who they had lunched with prior to the game), they decided to ease up as the game was patently already won. During the second half Torino's Franco Ossola, a superb winger and gentle soul, was tripped in the box. The referee duly pointed to the spot, but Ossola insisted the foul occurred outside the area. The free kick was blazed purposely over the bar.

Dear me this is a very sombre start to the day . Wow what a read !!<br /><br />-- Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:28 am --<br /><br />
Vienna_70 said:
Ironically, most Torino supporters work in the Fiat factory, but drive (or used, anyway) Volvos.

Is that the famous car plant with the test track on the roof ?
 
Ladybarn Blue . said:
Lucky Toma said:
I put this up recently on another thread so apologies to anyone who has already seen this.
But here's an article I wrote some time back concerning the Torino air crash....

On the 4th May 1949 a plane crashed into the cloudy peaks of the Superga mountain just outside of Turin. Of the thirty-one crew and passengers there were no survivors. Amongst the fatalities was Valerio Bacigalupo, a man known, with macabre irony, as 'the man with wings'. Another casualty was Ezio Loik, so solid and dependable he went by the nickname of 'the elephant'. Guglielmo 'il Barone' (the Baron) Gabetto also perished, along with his team-mate and good friend Eusebio Castigliano, who was widely and affectionately known as 'velvet leg' for his elegant playing style.
In purely footballing terms (and a tragedy of this scale renders such terms virtually irrelevant) perhaps the greatest sporting loss was a bullish thirty year old winger by the name of Valentino Mazzola. Undoubtedly one of the most gifted footballers of the 20th century and captain, and talisman, of the Grande Torino, Mazzola had everything. Sublime dribbling skills, an exquisite touch, adept in the air, and an all-round range of talents bestowed by an over-generous God. He could also, allegedly, jump higher than the crossbar from a standing start.
The plane was returning from Lisbon when bad weather and cruel fate intervened. Il Grande Torino, the finest club football side since the sport's inception, had been playing an exhibition match, parading their inventive skills and slick brilliance to an astonished Portuguese crowd. In fact, so in demand were they to showcase their talents abroad, the club president was toying with the idea of building two teams - one to compete in the domestic league, the other to undertake tours of international friendlies.

Guglielmo 'il Barone' Gabetto was the team's main striker, yet he disliked poaching easy goals.
'If it is not difficult, I am not interested in scoring'. Consequently, he only seemed to score from impossible angles, and each goal was seen by the fans as a 'little miracle'.

Every single player, every member of the coaching staff, every reserve, medic, kit man, and club director perished on the Superga peak. Bar one. A competent full-back named Saura Toma. Toma had injured his left knee in a match leading up to the fateful flight and doctors decreed that he stay home and rest, an arbitrary decision that saved his life. The following season he bravely represented Torino for a further fourteen games, surrounded by shell-shocked, unfamiliar youth players drafted in to replace their idols in a desperate, ultimately futile, attempt to rebuild the club from ashes. Toma dutifully did what he could before immense grief and guilt brought a promising career to a premature end.
His guilt was a uniquely personal anguish but the grief was shared by millions. The tragedy unleashed a tumultuous outpouring of emotion on a scale rarely before seen. Just four years earlier the already dead body of Mussolini swung in a Milan piazza. Prior to that came the devastating horrors of war. This was a nation hardened to life's extremities, yet the accident shook Italy to its marrow and its soul.
It is difficult to equate Il Grande Torino with any successful modern team, to form a clearer understanding as to just how good they were. To fully impact just how cataclysmic and monumental the disaster was. The 21st century Manchester United, even the celestial Real Madrid, do not come close to matching Torino's dominance and brilliance over an entire footballing era. Ten of their players were Italian national regulars. They had won the previous four Serie A titles at a canter and were on their way to clinching a fifth before the tragedy curtailed their wondrous adventure. Moreover, they perfectly captured the spirit of the times in post-war Italy, mirroring the fledgling optimism after the mighty fall of fascism and an oppressive political climate. Their celebratory, insouciant verve carried a significant cultural resonance with the people; to the beleaguered masses eleven players in burgundy shirts were validating a new democratic age every Sunday afternoon. Even their tactics reflected a cultural symmetry, a revolutionary W-M system, half-inched from Britain, and distrusted by other teams from the peninsula, it is, in its purest form, a 3-2-5 formation. That's right, FIVE attacking players.

At the player's funerals the fifth successive Scudetto was accorded to the club even though four fixtures remained. After a period of national mourning these games were reluctantly played out at the behest of the league's authorities. Torino were only able to call upon their callow youth team and so, in an act of defiance to the game's rulers, and solidarity and respect to Torino, their opponents - Genoa, Palermo, Sampdoria, and Fiorentina - also sent out their youth teams.

The Superga tragedy is unparalleled in sporting history. Of course there was Munich a decade later, an equally magnificent set of players and potential wiped out in one horrific moment, but, unlike United, Torino have never truly recovered. In the sixties the all-powerful Agnelli family - owners of Fiat - took control of their once inferior arch-rivals Juventus and, with substantial bankrolling, paved the way for a black-and-white dominance for many years to come. In 1959 Torino's charismatic Filadelfia stadium - that had showcased Mazzola's sublime talent, echoed the thunderous chants of 'Toro, Toro', and shook to Rigamonti's uncompromising tackles - was abandoned due to crippling financial problems. A proposal was tentatively put forward for a communal ground to be shared with the rising Juve, which later became the imposing Delle Alpi stadium. Sadly, Torino, often languishing in Serie B, with bankruptcy an ever-present shadow, soon began to resemble its poor tenants.
This is still the case. In fact, never more so. The last fifty years have brought little but dispiriting, prolonged spells in the lower leagues and fraught, top-flight relegation campaigns.
Torino's existence has become largely one of struggle, toil and survival. A once mighty club is now a sleeping, some might say comotosed, giant. But it is a giant with a rich history steeped in silverware, mythology and bygone excellence.
It is a history that should never be forgotten.

At half-time Torino were leading 7-0. The players agreed in the changing room that any more goals would appear arrogant and, not wanting to inflict further humiliation on their Roma opponents (who they had lunched with prior to the game), they decided to ease up as the game was patently already won. During the second half Torino's Franco Ossola, a superb winger and gentle soul, was tripped in the box. The referee duly pointed to the spot, but Ossola insisted the foul occurred outside the area. The free kick was blazed purposely over the bar.

Dear me this is a very sombre start to the day . Wow what a read !!

-- Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:28 am --

Vienna_70 said:
Ironically, most Torino supporters work in the Fiat factory, but drive (or used, anyway) Volvos.

That's the one!

Is that the famous car plant with the test track on the roof ?
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
Ladybarn Blue . said:
Lucky Toma said:
I put this up recently on another thread so apologies to anyone who has already seen this.
But here's an article I wrote some time back concerning the Torino air crash....

On the 4th May 1949 a plane crashed into the cloudy peaks of the Superga mountain just outside of Turin. Of the thirty-one crew and passengers there were no survivors. Amongst the fatalities was Valerio Bacigalupo, a man known, with macabre irony, as 'the man with wings'. Another casualty was Ezio Loik, so solid and dependable he went by the nickname of 'the elephant'. Guglielmo 'il Barone' (the Baron) Gabetto also perished, along with his team-mate and good friend Eusebio Castigliano, who was widely and affectionately known as 'velvet leg' for his elegant playing style.
In purely footballing terms (and a tragedy of this scale renders such terms virtually irrelevant) perhaps the greatest sporting loss was a bullish thirty year old winger by the name of Valentino Mazzola. Undoubtedly one of the most gifted footballers of the 20th century and captain, and talisman, of the Grande Torino, Mazzola had everything. Sublime dribbling skills, an exquisite touch, adept in the air, and an all-round range of talents bestowed by an over-generous God. He could also, allegedly, jump higher than the crossbar from a standing start.
The plane was returning from Lisbon when bad weather and cruel fate intervened. Il Grande Torino, the finest club football side since the sport's inception, had been playing an exhibition match, parading their inventive skills and slick brilliance to an astonished Portuguese crowd. In fact, so in demand were they to showcase their talents abroad, the club president was toying with the idea of building two teams - one to compete in the domestic league, the other to undertake tours of international friendlies.

Guglielmo 'il Barone' Gabetto was the team's main striker, yet he disliked poaching easy goals.
'If it is not difficult, I am not interested in scoring'. Consequently, he only seemed to score from impossible angles, and each goal was seen by the fans as a 'little miracle'.

Every single player, every member of the coaching staff, every reserve, medic, kit man, and club director perished on the Superga peak. Bar one. A competent full-back named Saura Toma. Toma had injured his left knee in a match leading up to the fateful flight and doctors decreed that he stay home and rest, an arbitrary decision that saved his life. The following season he bravely represented Torino for a further fourteen games, surrounded by shell-shocked, unfamiliar youth players drafted in to replace their idols in a desperate, ultimately futile, attempt to rebuild the club from ashes. Toma dutifully did what he could before immense grief and guilt brought a promising career to a premature end.
His guilt was a uniquely personal anguish but the grief was shared by millions. The tragedy unleashed a tumultuous outpouring of emotion on a scale rarely before seen. Just four years earlier the already dead body of Mussolini swung in a Milan piazza. Prior to that came the devastating horrors of war. This was a nation hardened to life's extremities, yet the accident shook Italy to its marrow and its soul.
It is difficult to equate Il Grande Torino with any successful modern team, to form a clearer understanding as to just how good they were. To fully impact just how cataclysmic and monumental the disaster was. The 21st century Manchester United, even the celestial Real Madrid, do not come close to matching Torino's dominance and brilliance over an entire footballing era. Ten of their players were Italian national regulars. They had won the previous four Serie A titles at a canter and were on their way to clinching a fifth before the tragedy curtailed their wondrous adventure. Moreover, they perfectly captured the spirit of the times in post-war Italy, mirroring the fledgling optimism after the mighty fall of fascism and an oppressive political climate. Their celebratory, insouciant verve carried a significant cultural resonance with the people; to the beleaguered masses eleven players in burgundy shirts were validating a new democratic age every Sunday afternoon. Even their tactics reflected a cultural symmetry, a revolutionary W-M system, half-inched from Britain, and distrusted by other teams from the peninsula, it is, in its purest form, a 3-2-5 formation. That's right, FIVE attacking players.

At the player's funerals the fifth successive Scudetto was accorded to the club even though four fixtures remained. After a period of national mourning these games were reluctantly played out at the behest of the league's authorities. Torino were only able to call upon their callow youth team and so, in an act of defiance to the game's rulers, and solidarity and respect to Torino, their opponents - Genoa, Palermo, Sampdoria, and Fiorentina - also sent out their youth teams.

The Superga tragedy is unparalleled in sporting history. Of course there was Munich a decade later, an equally magnificent set of players and potential wiped out in one horrific moment, but, unlike United, Torino have never truly recovered. In the sixties the all-powerful Agnelli family - owners of Fiat - took control of their once inferior arch-rivals Juventus and, with substantial bankrolling, paved the way for a black-and-white dominance for many years to come. In 1959 Torino's charismatic Filadelfia stadium - that had showcased Mazzola's sublime talent, echoed the thunderous chants of 'Toro, Toro', and shook to Rigamonti's uncompromising tackles - was abandoned due to crippling financial problems. A proposal was tentatively put forward for a communal ground to be shared with the rising Juve, which later became the imposing Delle Alpi stadium. Sadly, Torino, often languishing in Serie B, with bankruptcy an ever-present shadow, soon began to resemble its poor tenants.
This is still the case. In fact, never more so. The last fifty years have brought little but dispiriting, prolonged spells in the lower leagues and fraught, top-flight relegation campaigns.
Torino's existence has become largely one of struggle, toil and survival. A once mighty club is now a sleeping, some might say comotosed, giant. But it is a giant with a rich history steeped in silverware, mythology and bygone excellence.
It is a history that should never be forgotten.

At half-time Torino were leading 7-0. The players agreed in the changing room that any more goals would appear arrogant and, not wanting to inflict further humiliation on their Roma opponents (who they had lunched with prior to the game), they decided to ease up as the game was patently already won. During the second half Torino's Franco Ossola, a superb winger and gentle soul, was tripped in the box. The referee duly pointed to the spot, but Ossola insisted the foul occurred outside the area. The free kick was blazed purposely over the bar.

Dear me this is a very sombre start to the day . Wow what a read !!

-- Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:28 am --

Vienna_70 said:
Ironically, most Torino supporters work in the Fiat factory, but drive (or used, anyway) Volvos.

Is that the Fiat factory with the test track on the roof .

That's the one!

In that case it is the Fiat Lingollo factory / Turin.

Started in 1916 / 1917 , finished 1923 .

Goggle it , it is amazing .

( sorry i do not know how to attach to this mail !! ).

I wonder what the designer would have done with our stadium ? 100 years later !!
 
have to admit to liking Torino as well, always remember being linked with their full back. i think he was called Nadal and mad as fuck.

i'm sure its because they appeared to be a similar club to us.
 
Found this.

I typed in Torino and man city in google
And found this.

I think it's by a lazio fan

However it's true that many English fans are thinking that all italian ultras hate the English fans, but as I wrote this is not true.

Irriducibili Lazio sometimes have a banner with the Chelsea logo and did a sticker with the logo of West Ham.
I also know that the ultras of Torino like Man City, Hellas Verona like Chelsea.
 
Hello, this is my first post on the forum. I've read it for a couple of years but felt compelled to sign up when I saw the Torino Club England Flag in the photo as it used to belong to us.

First off then, the photo was from the Torino v Juventus game at the Stadio Delle Alpi from the 90/91 season.

Torino Club England was the brainchild (if that's the right word) of Herbie Sykes (ctidcarl and Nigel your right about the Lincoln and fanzine links)

During the late 80's / early 90's some of you may recall that satellite tv was starting to become available and things such as Serie A could be broadcast to the uk. Herbie took an interest in Torino and made comparisons between them and City which instigated a trip to watch the Turin Derby.

During the trip, fate conspired that they (I didn't make the first visit) were befriended by a number of locals, the ,most prominent of whom was called Domenico Beccaria. Domenico has strong links to the club and is also heavily involved in the running of Museo Del Toro (Torino FC Museum).

I made the next trip with Herbie and the 3 other lads who all used to go to City with and again met with Domenico and the level of interest / disbelief from their fans that you were going to see Torino and not Juventus was a bit overwhelming, we even got interviewed for the club tv.

Domenico and several other Toro fans have come across here to both Maine Road and the Eithad and we remain good friends 20 plus years on.

Nigel, if you have any pictures from the Atalanta game I hope you could share them with me as I would have met you that day as we were on my 40th birthday trip.
 
ONTHERUNWITHTHAKSIN said:
Didn't the link between the two start when we changed our away kit to maroon in the early 90's.
We've always had maroon away kits over the years. In the 1934 and 1956 FA Cup final wins we played in maroon. Also in our 1968 title winning season, our away kit was maroon.
 
Angelo Ogbonna has shrugged off reports linking him with Manchester United.

Sir Alex Ferguson is thought to be in the market for a new central defender, with Rio Ferdinand approaching the end of his contract and, indeed, his career.

The Reds manager has had Ogbonna watched on a number of occasions this season, and has been linked with making a £15million bid for his signature in January.

However, the 24-year-old, a full Italian international, has dismissed such speculation, as he continues to concentrate on impressing for current club Torino.

“I am in Turin – where else should I go?” he told Sky Italia. “My agent has not called me about anything and we all know rumours go on at this time of year.”


Angelo Ogbonna has shrugged off reports linking him with Manchester United.

Sir Alex Ferguson is thought to be in the market for a new central defender, with Rio Ferdinand approaching the end of his contract and, indeed, his career.

The Reds manager has had Ogbonna watched on a number of occasions this season, and has been linked with making a £15million bid for his signature in January.

However, the 24-year-old, a full Italian international, has dismissed such speculation, as he continues to concentrate on impressing for current club Torino.

“I am in Turin – where else should I go?” he told Sky Italia. “My agent has not called me about anything and we all know rumours go on at this time of year.”


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fansfc.com/ManchesterUnited/story/42923/12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fansfc.com/ManchesterUnited/ ... 23/12.html</a>
 
Just saw this so I thought I'd wade in. Toro Club England was started by a group of Lincoln-based City fans in 1989. At the time WSC was running a series of stories about so-called "second clubs"; Hertha, Toro, Espanyol etc. I was quite taken by Toro's story, and did some digging about.

Eventaually I managed to acquire some shirts - impossibly glamorous in those pre-internet days - and to cobble enough Italian together to hack through the Gazzetta for news. Toro were promoted back to Serie A that season, and BSB (they of the squarials) started showing Italian football. They had their own version of the Lake / Brightwell / Redmond / White / Hinchcliffe thing, a first team containing some very good former youth team players. So notwithstanding the fact that City were morphing into Everton reserves under Kendall, there were some very real similarities.

Some of you may remember a particularly miserable FA cup tie at Notts. County in February 1991. City contrived to lose it, which gave us a free weekend. That weekend we took a train to Turin (flying was too expensive back then) to watch Toro win their first derby for seven years. Sounds familiar...

The big granata flag with the two crests was a labour of love. We actually sacrificed seeing City win at Leeds to get it finished in time for the trip, and obviously it was pretty visible and pretty unusual. The Italian media liked it a great deal, and thus began the "relationship". At the outset the club was simply a handful of City fans who visited every season. For all that, the Italians like officialdom - this I know for I now live amongst them - and insisted we become an "official" Torino Calcio fan club. So the "link" was concrete in that sense, and if memeory serves we ended up with about 50-60 members at one point. To be honest though it sort of went tits up when we let non-blues join. We continued to watch them I couldn't be bothered with the "club" element of it any more, so it fell away.

And yes, the story of Torino (and Juventus) is truly extraordinary. You couldn't make it up.
 
Fascinating stuff, fair play to you for putting in that effort. You don't see commitment like that anywhere in football anymore.
 

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