The Tottenham Thread (Merged)

[Manc in London]

quote="AJ101"]

Spending wise (wages and net transfer spend) we've been about 6th-7th in the league over the last 10 years which on average is about where we've been so it's not so much disappointing as mediocrity. Should we have won a cup more or maybe achieved another 4th place finish at some point, well probably yes but we simply don't spend enough to make that a near certainty. [/quote]


I see what you did there…

Using averages means that we are seen as bigger spenders over the last 20 years (although you reduced it to 10). Yet over the last 20 years or so, I would think that in the vast majority of those seasons your players have been paid higher wages and you have spent more on transfers than everyone bar the SKY 4. You have simply sought to use transfer inflation to cover-up the fact that Spurs have been throwing good money after bad for many years.

For those reasons, Spurs have under-achieved. They have not won a major trophy since Des Walker scored that own goal. Off the top of my head, you have won two league cups, but then that’s a competition, although nice to win, is still a trophy that very few want to succeed in.

Obviously we've not had to play full strength teams that often outside of the league this year and that's allowed Redknapp to not rotate for the PL games which has definitely helped us as our "bench" players have had a pretty horrid time of injuries this season (Dawson, Kranjcar, Huddlestone etc). If/when we're in the CL next year hopefully we'll have an injury list like yours rather than your neighbours throughout the season!

Next year, we will be even better. Our players will be more used to each other, and some will be better acclimatised to the Prem. WE will also have a couple of very promising youtgh players that bit older and ready to dip their toe in the water.

It may also be worth pointing out that currently, we have one of the smallest playing squads in the Prem.

I would suggest that one of the reasons why you have injury problems is because your manager flogs your players. He doesn’t appear to look after the health of your players. He constantly rushes players back. At City, players are rotated and we have excellent medical facilities. Maybe Daniel Levy should actually spend some of his time looking into improving this side of things. If he is so good at his job, he should have realised this was an issue.

Don’t give us that nonsense about injuries. We once lost Bojinov, Johnson and Petrov for pretty much the entire season by around September 3 or 4 seasons ago. We have also lost a very promising player to injury.

This brings us back again to Spurs’ fans constant making of excuses. You only ever lose because of someone else. Maybe you should take some of your self-pity to RAWK. They would lap it up.

I don't think we have too much rebuilding to do in terms of the squad, we've still got quite a few players on our books that Levy/Harry are probably trying to get rid of but in terms of first team players there's only Adebayor that needs to be replaced next season and probably a new centre back and goalkeeper to replace King/Gallas and Friedel the year after. I certainly don't think we need a major overhaul like say Chelsea do.

So you only need a GK, a centre-half and a striker? That’s a rebuild of a significant part of your team. I would also add Parker to that list. He’s getting to that age where a hamstring pull takes around 2 months to recover from. I guess you would be happy if you didn’t add to your central midfield as it would give you a convenient excuse next season. I guess Defoe will be happy to stay next season? Has Saha signed for next year or is it a 6-month contract with an option to extend?

With regards to the manager well who knows I guess it's 80/20 that Harry is going to leave us for the England job before the start of next season but I'm sure Levy has contingency plans.

Having a contingency plan is one thing. Having a contingency plan that works is another thing altogether. Levy’s ability to choose the right manager has not always been very good, has it?

 

[Castiel]

I just cannot believe that Spurs are wheeling out the spending argument again. I just can't believe it.

 

[Mikeegrini]

I just cannot believe that Spurs are wheeling out the spending argument again. I just can't believe it.

When all else fails, return to the mantra.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I just cannot believe that Spurs are wheeling out the spending argument again. I just can't believe it.

When all else fails, return to the mantra.

if you take Newcastle and put in Liverpool Spurs are 5th out of 6 in total spent in the PL and 3rd in net spend out of those 6.

 

[AJ101]

quote="AJ101"]

Spending wise (wages and net transfer spend) we've been about 6th-7th in the league over the last 10 years which on average is about where we've been so it's not so much disappointing as mediocrity. Should we have won a cup more or maybe achieved another 4th place finish at some point, well probably yes but we simply don't spend enough to make that a near certainty.

I see what you did there…

Using averages means that we are seen as bigger spenders over the last 20 years (although you reduced it to 10). Yet over the last 20 years or so, I would think that in the vast majority of those seasons your players have been paid higher wages and you have spent more on transfers than everyone bar the SKY 4. You have simply sought to use transfer inflation to cover-up the fact that Spurs have been throwing good money after bad for many years.

For those reasons, Spurs have under-achieved. They have not won a major trophy since Des Walker scored that own goal. Off the top of my head, you have won two league cups, but then that’s a competition, although nice to win, is still a trophy that very few want to succeed in.

Obviously we've not had to play full strength teams that often outside of the league this year and that's allowed Redknapp to not rotate for the PL games which has definitely helped us as our "bench" players have had a pretty horrid time of injuries this season (Dawson, Kranjcar, Huddlestone etc). If/when we're in the CL next year hopefully we'll have an injury list like yours rather than your neighbours throughout the season!

Next year, we will be even better. Our players will be more used to each other, and some will be better acclimatised to the Prem. WE will also have a couple of very promising youtgh players that bit older and ready to dip their toe in the water.

It may also be worth pointing out that currently, we have one of the smallest playing squads in the Prem.

I would suggest that one of the reasons why you have injury problems is because your manager flogs your players. He doesn’t appear to look after the health of your players. He constantly rushes players back. At City, players are rotated and we have excellent medical facilities. Maybe Daniel Levy should actually spend some of his time looking into improving this side of things. If he is so good at his job, he should have realised this was an issue.

Don’t give us that nonsense about injuries. We once lost Bojinov, Johnson and Petrov for pretty much the entire season by around September 3 or 4 seasons ago. We have also lost a very promising player to injury.

This brings us back again to Spurs’ fans constant making of excuses. You only ever lose because of someone else. Maybe you should take some of your self-pity to RAWK. They would lap it up.

I don't think we have too much rebuilding to do in terms of the squad, we've still got quite a few players on our books that Levy/Harry are probably trying to get rid of but in terms of first team players there's only Adebayor that needs to be replaced next season and probably a new centre back and goalkeeper to replace King/Gallas and Friedel the year after. I certainly don't think we need a major overhaul like say Chelsea do.

So you only need a GK, a centre-half and a striker? That’s a rebuild of a significant part of your team. I would also add Parker to that list. He’s getting to that age where a hamstring pull takes around 2 months to recover from. I guess you would be happy if you didn’t add to your central midfield as it would give you a convenient excuse next season. I guess Defoe will be happy to stay next season? Has Saha signed for next year or is it a 6-month contract with an option to extend?

With regards to the manager well who knows I guess it's 80/20 that Harry is going to leave us for the England job before the start of next season but I'm sure Levy has contingency plans.

Having a contingency plan is one thing. Having a contingency plan that works is another thing altogether. Levy’s ability to choose the right manager has not always been very good, has it?

I know this is a City forum and everything but I really wasn't comparing us to your team (except in the collective) in any of my reply, you were the one that brought up spending not me although obviously it's been discussed on this thread and others multiple times before. It's just the obvious yardstick to measure teams’ success against.

I changed it to 10 years because it's hard to come by figures before that(especially salaries), maybe we did underachieve significantly in the first 10 years of the PL, from my memories of how poor we were in results back then we probably did(although the games certainly were exciting when we played 5-0-5 formations!).

Our salary structure has meant us being about 7th-8th in the league up until last season when our CL bonuses pushed us up to 5th in to terms of salaries paid, we've been big spenders in the transfer market it's true but that certainly didn't make up the difference in wages paid to the "sky 4" and the group below that have always had a pretty similar spend on the playing staff.

I'm not crying about injuries, if you actually read what I said it was that our "bench" players had been injured but that this hadn't effected us this year due to us only playing full strength teams in the PL and that if we got CL next season this would be an issue if we had a similar (or worse) injury problems.

I'm one of Harrys biggest critics when it comes to his lack of squad rotation and use of substitutes in games we've obviously won in 60mins. I will repeat what I've said twice now (in the hope you'll understand) that this hasn't affected us up till now this season because of the lack of CL this season (how that can be construed as crying and making excuses I don't know).

I wouldn't say replacing one or two players a season is major overhaul it's just the natural cycle of a football team considering players generally play at the top level for 10-12 years, it's nothing compared to the rebuilding you did since the takeover or what Chelsea will have to do next season (or the season after if they really persist with their current squad). Will we add to our midfield for next season, well I and most Tottenham fans rate Sandro just as highly as Parker and I know your fans don't so we'll just leave it there as it's already been discussed on this thread but we'll probably add one midfielder next season as a replacement for Pienaar, Jenas, Dos Santos and Bentley (I'd expect 3+ to be sold in the summer).

I'm not bitter about City's spending in the last couple of years, that's life and we've been through it before with Chelsea and Blackburn it's nothing new. Quite why City fans are so bitter about Spurs just because the newspapers and commentators say we play nice football is beyond me however.

Levy has been learning on the job as it were, Spurs fans can see it in the decisions being made, he's not a football man he's a businessman and runs Spurs as such. He may not always make the most inspired decisions when it comes to managers but I have confidence in him that he will not let Spurs do a Leeds.

 

[Mikeegrini]

I just cannot believe that Spurs are wheeling out the spending argument again. I just can't believe it.

When all else fails, return to the mantra.

if you take Newcastle and put in Liverpool Spurs are 5th out of 6 in total spent in the PL and 3rd in net spend out of those 6.

Or to put it another way.In the last five years Spurs have outspent every other PL team except ourselves, Lpool, Chelsea.

 

[zeven]

To AJ101

I'm not bitter about City's spending in the last couple of years, that's life and we've been through it before with Chelsea and Blackburn it's nothing new. Quite why City fans are so bitter about Spurs just because the newspapers and commentators say we play nice football is beyond me however.

This i've never understood. for me its a myth.

your tactics are non existent, only old fashion english play, pacy wingers and one target man in the middle, and hit fast on the counter. still United do it far better than you.

I'm only 30 so maybe thats why i prefer, pass and move, possesion based football. ala barcelona old arsenal and now city.


My personal opinion, i hope you guys sink like a ship next season, if it wouldnt been for Liverpool, i would put you on level with united on my dislike list.
your manager just cant shut the fuck up about other teams players, he tactical inept. and a tax criminal. You have inbreds like walker (is he english btw) in your team too.

i do respect bale and parker though, just a shame they play for you.

 

[Rammyblues]

The moral of the tale is therefore if you invest in your team on a regular and sustainable basis, have a good manager and a good squad of players CL is near enough guaranteed. Those that don't invest are likely to miss out.

 

[spurspinter1]

To AJ101

I'm not bitter about City's spending in the last couple of years, that's life and we've been through it before with Chelsea and Blackburn it's nothing new. Quite why City fans are so bitter about Spurs just because the newspapers and commentators say we play nice football is beyond me however.

This i've never understood. for me its a myth.

1. your tactics are non existent, only old fashion english play, 2. pacy wingers and 3. one target man in the middle, and hit fast on the counter. 4. still United do it far better than you.

5. I'm only 30 so maybe thats why i prefer, 6. pass and move, possesion based football. ala barcelona old arsenal and now city.


My personal opinion, i hope you guys sink like a ship next season, if it wouldnt been for Liverpool, i would put you on level with united on my dislike list.
7. your manager just cant shut the fuck up about other teams players, he tactical inept. and a 8. tax criminal. 9. You have inbreds like walker (is he english btw) in your team too.

i do respect bale and parker though, just a shame they play for you.

You've taken a tiny segment of a really good post and seem to have misunderstood it completely.

So I'll attempt to get through your post...

1. You've said our tactics our non-existent, then go on to voice your opinion on our tactics. Huh?

2. One of the biggest complaints on here that I've seen is the lack of a decent pacy winger

3. I'd say Dzeko is much more of a steretypical target man than Ade is. And there's nothing wrong with playing a target man anyway, don't see what the issue is.

4. The only Utd striker I'd consider to be a target man is berba, and he's an unorthodox one at that so I don't get you here.

5. I don't see what your age has to do with what you have posted.

6. If you think you play like Barca then that is your opinion, fair enough.

7. "Hazard has an enormous level of talent and is able to play at the maximum level," Mancini is quoted as saying by French magazine Le 10 Sport. "But we know there is interest from the big European clubs and any deal will not be easy."

De Rossi is a champion and would be the perfect man to improve City. If we get the right signals [from Roma], it is worth trying [to sign him].

'I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in Rome. But if he doesn't sign, City will be ready.


It's naive to think they're not all at it, some more than others of course.

8. Apparently not

9. What pleasure do you get from calling Walker an inbred? Really?

 

[AJ101]

To AJ101

I'm not bitter about City's spending in the last couple of years, that's life and we've been through it before with Chelsea and Blackburn it's nothing new. Quite why City fans are so bitter about Spurs just because the newspapers and commentators say we play nice football is beyond me however.

This i've never understood. for me its a myth.

your tactics are non existent, only old fashion english play, pacy wingers and one target man in the middle, and hit fast on the counter. still United do it far better than you.

I'm only 30 so maybe thats why i prefer, pass and move, possesion based football. ala barcelona old arsenal and now city.


My personal opinion, i hope you guys sink like a ship next season, if it wouldnt been for Liverpool, i would put you on level with united on my dislike list.
your manager just cant shut the fuck up about other teams players, he tactical inept. and a tax criminal. You have inbreds like walker (is he english btw) in your team too.

i do respect bale and parker though, just a shame they play for you.

We have a massive 7% less passes per game than you at a success rate of 85% compared to 85.6%, have you ever actually watched us play? Yes we use wingers to stretch teams but that doesn't mean we don't play possession football or use players in the middle otherwise Modric and VDV would be pointless wouldn't they?

Yeah Walker is English hence why he started the last England game.........

Harry should STFU but hey what can you do, that's really the fault of Spurs supporters as is his former dealings with Mandaric in which he was found not guilty obviously.......

When all else fails, return to the mantra.

if you take Newcastle and put in Liverpool Spurs are 5th out of 6 in total spent in the PL and 3rd in net spend out of those 6.

Or to put it another way.In the last five years Spurs have outspent every other PL team except ourselves, Lpool, Chelsea.

Or in the real world less than Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Villa and Arsenal unless you think a wage bill of £65m compared to the £100m+ of the "sky four" and yourselves makes no difference to the team you can field. That means we're 7th in spending.

I don't really care about you spending hundreds of millions it's not as though we were in a position to buy most of those players anyway and the ones we could of got aren't exactly a big loss (unless Silva had no other offers of course) but to say we should of done better in previous years you really should take in to account the huge gulf in wages not just net spend in transfers which is only a tiny part of the clubs player expenditure. (Even a team with relatively high transfer fees and low wages still only spend ~20% on transfer fees compared to wages over the last 10 years).

 

[r.soleofsalford]

To AJ101

I'm not bitter about City's spending in the last couple of years, that's life and we've been through it before with Chelsea and Blackburn it's nothing new. Quite why City fans are so bitter about Spurs just because the newspapers and commentators say we play nice football is beyond me however.

This i've never understood. for me its a myth.

1. your tactics are non existent, only old fashion english play, 2. pacy wingers and 3. one target man in the middle, and hit fast on the counter. 4. still United do it far better than you.

5. I'm only 30 so maybe thats why i prefer, 6. pass and move, possesion based football. ala barcelona old arsenal and now city.


My personal opinion, i hope you guys sink like a ship next season, if it wouldnt been for Liverpool, i would put you on level with united on my dislike list.
7. your manager just cant shut the fuck up about other teams players, he tactical inept. and a 8. tax criminal. 9. You have inbreds like walker (is he english btw) in your team too.

i do respect bale and parker though, just a shame they play for you.

You've taken a tiny segment of a really good post and seem to have misunderstood it completely.

So I'll attempt to get through your post...

1. You've said our tactics our non-existent, then go on to voice your opinion on our tactics. Huh?

2. One of the biggest complaints on here that I've seen is the lack of a decent pacy winger

3. I'd say Dzeko is much more of a steretypical target man than Ade is. And there's nothing wrong with playing a target man anyway, don't see what the issue is.

4. The only Utd striker I'd consider to be a target man is berba, and he's an unorthodox one at that so I don't get you here.

5. I don't see what your age has to do with what you have posted.

6. If you think you play like Barca then that is your opinion, fair enough.

7. "Hazard has an enormous level of talent and is able to play at the maximum level," Mancini is quoted as saying by French magazine Le 10 Sport. "But we know there is interest from the big European clubs and any deal will not be easy."

De Rossi is a champion and would be the perfect man to improve City. If we get the right signals [from Roma], it is worth trying [to sign him].

'I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in Rome. But if he doesn't sign, City will be ready.


It's naive to think they're not all at it, some more than others of course.

8. Apparently not

9. What pleasure do you get from calling Walker an inbred? Really?

reasonable post

 

[zeven]

Maybe my post drifted a bit off topic. I just saw my chance to get my dislike of spurs off my chest.

a couple of things i will try to make more clear.

1, my impression, Arry is unable to change tactics according to opposition or under play.
its like he put on a game from the 70s, on TV and thats it and the tacical aspects of his job is done. You are very close to the new arsenal in that regard.

2, Have you ever read qoutes from Walker? sorry to say it but the guy is stupid beyond belief.

3 Your lack of a target man last season proves my point regarding your tactics and style of play. how many goals come from your strikes? i bet it could have been more by changing tactics or a striker that actually worked with your current tactics (mention in my previous post) its not that Defoe is a bad player, because hes not.

4, I never said City play like/ecually good football as barca? i said i prefer pass and move possesion based football like barca, old arsenal and the way City try to play.


last i want to point out, that hope you dont take it personally because i like you as a member on this forum! its just your team and manager i cant come around to like.

 

[Manc in London]

Spurspinter1,

De Rossi was free to negotiate with other clubs. Mancini IMO was therefore able to talk about him without being accused of tapping up the player. Not the best example.

Redknapp blatantly tapped-up Dunne, Cole, James and Distin while they were playing for us. He appears to talk often about players at other clubs on a regular basis. He revels in it. I have strong suspicion that he uses his fellow East End spivs in the press to leak information to unsettle players. I read a rumour on here that it was him who told Harry Harris about us trying to sign Kaka. He's a gobshite.

 

[AJ101]

Spurspinter1,

De Rossi was free to negotiate with other clubs. Mancini IMO was therefore able to talk about him without being accused of tapping up the player. Not the best example.

Redknapp blatantly tapped-up Dunne, Cole, James and Distin while they were playing for us. He appears to talk often about players at other clubs on a regular basis. He revels in it. I have strong suspicion that he uses his fellow East End spivs in the press to leak information to unsettle players. I read a rumour on here that it was him who told Harry Harris about us trying to sign Kaka. He's a gobshite.

I don't know about Dunne, Cole, James and Distin as I honestly can't remember what was said in the press back then but what Harry is so often lambasted for isn't against any rules.

That being said it's pretty pointless and doesn't help anyone (The player, Harry, Spurs, the players club) except for the press. I wish he'd just STFU and learn the words "no comment" but I can't see him changing now. I'm sure he's on a Pay Per Word deal with one of the newspapers or Sky Sports because he just can't keep his mouth shut about anything.

 

[THFC6061]

When all else fails, return to the mantra.

if you take Newcastle and put in Liverpool Spurs are 5th out of 6 in total spent in the PL and 3rd in net spend out of those 6.

Or to put it another way.In the last five years Spurs have outspent every other PL team except ourselves, Lpool, Chelsea.

Under Harry, Spurs have had a net spend of just £22,230,000.

That's a tad over £7,400,000 a season....

...Peanuts by today's standards.

 

[MC ID]

To AJ101

I'm not bitter about City's spending in the last couple of years, that's life and we've been through it before with Chelsea and Blackburn it's nothing new. Quite why City fans are so bitter about Spurs just because the newspapers and commentators say we play nice football is beyond me however.

This i've never understood. for me its a myth.

1. your tactics are non existent, only old fashion english play, 2. pacy wingers and 3. one target man in the middle, and hit fast on the counter. 4. still United do it far better than you.

5. I'm only 30 so maybe thats why i prefer, 6. pass and move, possesion based football. ala barcelona old arsenal and now city.


My personal opinion, i hope you guys sink like a ship next season, if it wouldnt been for Liverpool, i would put you on level with united on my dislike list.
7. your manager just cant shut the fuck up about other teams players, he tactical inept. and a 8. tax criminal. 9. You have inbreds like walker (is he english btw) in your team too.

i do respect bale and parker though, just a shame they play for you.

You've taken a tiny segment of a really good post and seem to have misunderstood it completely.

So I'll attempt to get through your post...

1. You've said our tactics our non-existent, then go on to voice your opinion on our tactics. Huh?

2. One of the biggest complaints on here that I've seen is the lack of a decent pacy winger

3. I'd say Dzeko is much more of a steretypical target man than Ade is. And there's nothing wrong with playing a target man anyway, don't see what the issue is.

4. The only Utd striker I'd consider to be a target man is berba, and he's an unorthodox one at that so I don't get you here.

5. I don't see what your age has to do with what you have posted.

6. If you think you play like Barca then that is your opinion, fair enough.

7. "Hazard has an enormous level of talent and is able to play at the maximum level," Mancini is quoted as saying by French magazine Le 10 Sport. "But we know there is interest from the big European clubs and any deal will not be easy."

De Rossi is a champion and would be the perfect man to improve City. If we get the right signals [from Roma], it is worth trying [to sign him].

'I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in Rome. But if he doesn't sign, City will be ready.


It's naive to think they're not all at it, some more than others of course.

8. Apparently not

9. What pleasure do you get from calling Walker an inbred? Really?

Good post. I enjoy having the other fans on here, getting a different view on things is really good for discussion.

When it comes to Spurs myself I think I can sum up my view as the following.

I hate the manager and I hate this media obsession with them. The team however I like and I personally have never had a problem with a single spurs fan, up until I mention I hate 'Arry.

 

[zeven]

Maybe i went a bit to far in my previous posts.

i want to sincerely apologize to our spurs members for that.

 

[alky313]

Spurs fans,

How can you justify the massive growth in total wages under Harry Redknapp. And do you truly feel comfortable with signing Eden Hazard at higher wages than almost all of your top earners?

 

[Mikeegrini]

if you take Newcastle and put in Liverpool Spurs are 5th out of 6 in total spent in the PL and 3rd in net spend out of those 6.

Or to put it another way.In the last five years Spurs have outspent every other PL team except ourselves, Lpool, Chelsea.

Under Harry, Spurs have had a net spend of just £22,230,000.

That's a tad over £7,400,000 a season....

...Peanuts by today's standards.

All you have proved there is that the total spent by 'Arry is that near £100 mill inside three years. The stockpile of players sold are still assets of the club they still had a value congratulations to the management before 'arry for building that group. Down to Levy I guess.

By using your formula or net spending Trafford United have had a net spend less than the vast majority of the PL over the last few years due largely to the sale of Ronaldo.

 

[THFC6061]

Or to put it another way.In the last five years Spurs have outspent every other PL team except ourselves, Lpool, Chelsea.

Under Harry, Spurs have had a net spend of just £22,230,000.

That's a tad over £7,400,000 a season....

...Peanuts by today's standards.

All you have proved there is that the total spent by 'Arry is that near £100 mill inside three years. The stockpile of players sold are still assets of the club they still had a value congratulations to the management before 'arry for building that group. Down to Levy I guess.

By using your formula or net spending Trafford United have had a net spend less than the vast majority of the PL over the last few years due largely to the sale of Ronaldo.

If you buy a new car for £20,000 but use your old car, valued at £12,000 as a trade-in, you've spent £8,000.