The unemployment fudge

Mike D said:
You really don't get it do you? Here's an article which sums up a lot and gives you an example to hang your hat https://www.theguardian.com/comment...tation-record-employment-low-wages-zero-hours

But lets say you are not a student which are obviously these people who are so blissfully happy on ZHC. Once upon a time back in the day not so long ago you could go to work and earn an honest days crust which paid you enough to live off eat feed, pay the bills and keep a roof over your head (you know this really did happen I am not making this up). Back then an employer employed you under a contract which gave you a set number of hours that enabled you do all these things.

Then came along the ZHC which not bad for everyone (unless you are a student then they are the dogs f*ckin doo dars) weren't so good for people with families kids, sick partners, parents to look after (these people do exist). The problem for them is that under ZHC they can do no longer plan it's literally hand to mouth and some landlords won't even entertain ZHC. Not so long ago there was a program on Dispatches there was a guy who had fell on hard times split up from his partner and living on the streets and in hostels when he could afford, at the same time he was working on a ZHC washing in public toilets. Defend this shit how ever mush you like but how the fuck is that not exploitation is beyond me!!

Not all ZHC people are morons some are forced to sign up by the dole office or face sanction or forced to because they have no other choice like the guy in the Dispatches.
Click to expand...

That article just makes sweeping generalisations about more or less everything. For example, it compares us to Germany in terms of productivity who are barely ahead but rather conveniently it doesn't compare Germany in terms of wage growth because our wage growth is higher, no actually our wage growth is 4x higher!!! Inflation in Germany is 2.4% so fairly similar to ours but wage growth over there is 0.5%! Ours is 2.8%!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875599

I couldn't find a single point in the guardian article either that sums anything up, it provides ZERO evidence that a ZHC is directly responsible for any form of exploitation, cheap labour or anything else. In fact it mentions a zero hours contract once only to say no-one had heard of them 20 years ago......

I'll leave this here where the CIPD pretty much quashes all the myths and not a suitably biased newspaper.....

https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/emp-law/terms-conditions/zero-hours-reality-report

"Almost half of zero-hours contract workers (47%) report they are satisfied with having no minimum contracted hours"

"Most zero-hours contract workers (52%) don’t want to work more hours than they typically receive in an average week"

"Nearly a fifth (18%) report that hourly rates for zero-hours staff are higher than permanent employees."

Almost two-thirds (64%) of employers who use zero-hours workers report that hourly rates for these staff are about the same as an employee doing the same role on a permanent contract.

"In all, 60% of zero-hours contract workers agree or strongly agree they are satisfied with their job"
 
inbetween said:
That article just makes sweeping generalisations about more or less everything. For example, it compares us to Germany in terms of productivity who are barely ahead but rather conveniently it doesn't compare Germany in terms of wage growth because our wage growth is higher, no actually our wage growth is 4x higher!!! Inflation in Germany is 2.4% so fairly similar to ours but wage growth over there is 0.5%! Ours is 2.8%!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875599

I couldn't find a single point in the guardian article either that sums anything up, it provides ZERO evidence that a ZHC is directly responsible for any form of exploitation, cheap labour or anything else. In fact it mentions a zero hours contract once only to say no-one had heard of them 20 years ago......

I'll leave this here where the CIPD pretty much quashes all the myths and not a suitably biased newspaper.....

https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/emp-law/terms-conditions/zero-hours-reality-report

"Almost half of zero-hours contract workers (47%) report they are satisfied with having no minimum contracted hours" 213

"Most zero-hours contract workers (52%) don’t want to work more hours than they typically receive in an average week" 235

"Nearly a fifth (18%) report that hourly rates for zero-hours staff are higher than permanent employees." 82

Almost two-thirds (64%) of employers who use zero-hours workers report that hourly rates for these staff are about the same as an employee doing the same role on a permanent contract. 290

"In all, 60% of zero-hours contract workers agree or strongly agree they are satisfied with their job"
Click to expand...

Based on findings from the CIPD’s summer and autumn 2013 Labour Market Outlook surveys, both based on a representative sample of 1,000
employers in the UK and data from the CIPD’s autumn 2013 Employee Outlook survey, conducted in partnership with Halogen, of more than 2,000 people in employment
in the UK, 453 of whom are zerohours workers

So that 0.053% of those 1 million on ZHC which seems a pretty conclusive to me!!

 
Mike D said:
Based on findings from the CIPD’s summer and autumn 2013 Labour Market Outlook surveys, both based on a representative sample of 1,000
employers in the UK and data from the CIPD’s autumn 2013 Employee Outlook survey, conducted in partnership with Halogen, of more than 2,000 people in employment
in the UK, 453 of whom are zerohours workers

So that 0.053% of those 1 million on ZHC which seems a pretty conclusive to me!!
Click to expand...

Even if you disagree with his evidence, you still have to provide evidence of your own that ZHCs are exploitative. Note that opinion pieces do not constitute evidence.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
45% of workers aren't satisfied with their zero hours contracts, that's a lot of people.
Click to expand...

Where is the evidence of this and what is the detail to tell us they are disatisfied in terms of what?

If they are disatisfied with their job or employer rather than the contract then that has nothing to do with it. I can find you a ton of people who are also disatisfied with their part/full time contract.

Do you actually mean that 45% of workers on a zero hours contract want to be on a fixed hours full/part time contract?
 
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