This team won't be considered great until...

Psychedelic Casual said:
Ah yes, the champions of Moldova and Liechtenstein from the old European Cup days were so much better than this current Liverpool and Real Madrid sides

Do you think we might get a bye in the semis if we get past Liverpool next month?
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The “old” European Cup was much more difficult to win, by dint of the fact that you had to be league champion (or holder of the European Cup) to enter it. Then straight knockout, drawn against anyone and everyone; none of the convoluted bollocks you get now with seedings, TV schedules amending matches etc, etc. That’s what made it the zenith - no second chances and only played between champions.

I wouldn’t want a bye against anyone; but I’d love the champs’ league to mean just that - played between champions.
 
If we win the league with a record (or maybe near record even) points and goals total, we would have to be considered a great team.

I think a team can only be considered on its achievements over one season as players and managers continually come and go and next season we will have a (slightly) different team.
 
OB1 said:
Sensible stuff.

Although I think now is not really the time to discuss how this team ranks against the acknowledged great sides of the past (recent or far). This season is not over yet and quite a lot of significance to such a debate could yet happen. That won't change the actual quality of what we have so far seen this season but perceptions could be influenced and we all know that "perception is reality".

As to what the perceptions or opinions are of other supporters or the media, it's an opportunity for debate but ultimately I don't care: I'm having too much fun watching this team and, if the fun continues, greatness is assured in my eyes.
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Wholeheartedly agree with the last sentiment - why should we care what anyone’s perception is? That’s why the OP frustrated me - too may of us hung up about this journalist, that ex-player. Let’s just enjoy.
 
johnnytapia said:
The “old” European Cup was much more difficult to win, by dint of the fact that you had to be league champion (or holder of the European Cup) to enter it. Then straight knockout, drawn against anyone and everyone; none of the convoluted bollocks you get now with seedings, TV schedules amending matches etc, etc. That’s what made it the zenith - no second chances and only played between champions.

I wouldn’t want a bye against anyone; but I’d love the champs’ league to mean just that - played between champions.
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I would disagree. The Champion's League is made more difficult by virtue of having a greater number of stronger teams in it. Having to potentially beat Real Madrid and Barcelona is much more difficult than playing Barcelona and the champions of Cyprus.
 
johnnytapia said:
I’d be happy for this City team to match what that Forset team achieved.
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In the current era, we've already won more league titles, league cups and FA Cups. Clearly, we have yet to win the European Cup / UCL and I'd be delighted to see us win it once but I hope in the next few years we might be able to top Forest's two. However, it won't change my opinion that there's a massive gulf in the quality between the current City team and the Forest side of 77 - 80.

What is undeniable is that if one of the attributes of a great team is one that is greater than the sum of the parts, Forest were certainly that thanks to Clough and Taylor. Pep pitting his wits against them at their peak would have been very interesting; although I'd bet Clough would have parked the bus against us.
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
I would disagree. The Champion's League is made more difficult by virtue of having a greater number of stronger teams in it. Having to potentially beat Real Madrid and Barcelona is much more difficult than playing Barcelona and the champions of Cyprus.
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Ultimately the UCL is harder to win because you normally end up with such quality in the final stages. If we want to win it this season, we will have to beat two European giants and Liverpool.
 
OB1 said:
In the current era, we've already won more league titles, league cups and FA Cups. Clearly, we have yet to win the European Cup / UCL and I'd be delighted to see us win it once but I hope in the next few years we might be able to top Forest's two. However, it won't change my opinion that there's a massive gulf in the quality between the current City team and the Forest side of 77 - 80.

What is undeniable is that if one of the attributes of a great team is one that is greater than the sum of the parts, Forest were certainly that thanks to Clough and Taylor. Pep pitting his wits against them at their peak would have been very interesting; although I'd bet Clough would have parked the bus against us.
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Comparing this team with Forest of late 70s is very difficult. Totally different era, players are so much fitter, faster now. That Forest team had a mix of flair (Francis) craft (Robertson) and sheer blood and guts (Lloyd, Burns). They also invested in the world’s most expensive keeper. Clough was a genius and I hold him in the highest regard.
 
johnnytapia said:
The “old” European Cup was much more difficult to win, by dint of the fact that you had to be league champion (or holder of the European Cup) to enter it. Then straight knockout, drawn against anyone and everyone; none of the convoluted bollocks you get now with seedings, TV schedules amending matches etc, etc. That’s what made it the zenith - no second chances and only played between champions.

I wouldn’t want a bye against anyone; but I’d love the champs’ league to mean just that - played between champions.
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Excellent point and I couldn't agree more. A time of, make sure you win, because if you don't, you're out.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
It’s not my definition, it’s the Oxford English Dictionary’s

And in two weeks your post will be worthless
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In this moment we ARE a great team.
League cup winners.
Champions in waiting.
One of the favourites to win the Champions league.
We are playing superbly.
The traditional big teams are all overawed by us.
How can anybody say that we are not a great team?
 
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