Time to put sentiment aside, back-line needs an overhaul.

[bluemooninho]

Nip, you're normally a very good poster but are you seriously suggesting we completely overhaul our defence midway through the season? When we'll still be in the title chase and with the Champs League k/o's on the horizon?

I'd personally like us to go in for Luke Shaw but is it realistic to think we can grab him from Soton in Jan PLUS loan out/sell Clichy?
Even then he'd be a young lad adapting to our style of play being thrown in to pressurised games without a pre-season bedding in period.

Lescott...a good solid fourth choice to see us through the season. Just need Vinnie and Nasty back and we've got three very decent CBs ahead of him (Demechelis has impressed in past couple of weeks)

Let's give Richards half a season to overcome his injury jetlag and adapt himself to Pellegrini's methods eh? The lad deserves that to say the least.
Yesterday saw him regularly make his trademark five yard sliding run across their back-line that produced so many chances in the past but this time without being used by team-mates. He needs a bit of time to click with Navas in particular and then we can get a fair impression on whether he's a fading force or not.

If that's indeed the case then yes we'll need a new right-back because additionally we cannot expect Zaba to play to his intensity season after season.

But in Jan? No signings for me.

What we need right now aren't new players but games. 7-0 spankings and frustrating 1-0 reverses. As long as each player learns from both we'll be stronger post-Xmas then we bring in a couple of additions next summer.

Post of the day for me!!!

 

[Mr HJ]

Right - I have calmed down a little from yesterday's match, another typical false dawn and a missed opportunity to really put ourselves in a great position. The back four yesterday although didn't cost us the match they contributed to it.
Richards - He has become -at an age when he should be in his prime- a liability. I think he is no longer an exciting prospect who can be forgiven for his failings. Sad to say he is now the class clown and around for his off field personality rather than what he is paid for i.e. being an experienced premiership player. He is not the same as he was 2 years ago and his constant bad positioning puts others in strife. Going forward was his biggest attribute yet he now simply gets in the way just look at both Sergio and Navas yesterday as he wandered into the space they anted to attack.
Demechelis - Now I maybe in the minority here but I think he is doing exactly what should be expected from an experienced player. He tries to play with intensity and his passes albeit some go astray are always trying to put us on the front foot. I thought he really tried yesterday to drive us forward when we needed it. Alongside a dominant tackler such as Vinny and even Nastastic he cold be the answer.
Lescott - Dear oh dear whereas I like the guy and think he was ok two years ago he had gone seriously backwards. A few games ago when we needed a cb to stamp his experience on the squad he was incapable of doing so. His passing is ponderous and nervous, of our 14 corners yesterday he got on the end of 3 headers all of which landed over 20 feet wide - where is the guy who was a constant threat for Everton. Seems more interested in clothes and music rather than football. Time for Hughes reunion I think.
Kolarov - I would so much love to like him and think he has improved this season compared to his awful performances last but he still gets caught out too many times. His mobility is a big factor and for point of reference compare him to Shaw at Soton or Baines. As I said he is ok but not good enough which is why I think he gets left out for most of the really big games.
All in all with a few injuries in the camp we are left with a back four that does not give the team the strong base it needs. I am not sure these fringe players have the right attitude when they are in and out of the team. The four I have mentioned are in the main hugely experienced and should fit the bill. I for one hope the club replaces at least two of them with players who are capable of being called on if the need arises. That takes mental strength and desire. Final point yesterday MP should have started with Zab as captain that was the only glaring error in team selection IMO he would have stopped them constantly attacking our weak right hand side.

 

[BobKowalski]

So we overhaul the back line and the keeper and then what? The defensive issues apparent since the Arsenal pre season friendly just disappear? Didn't we try this under Hughes? Conceding goals and making mistakes well get a new back 4 and keeper. Still conceding goals? Ok we didn't get the right back 4 so we will start again. Except we didn't. We got rid of Hughes and actually tried coaching the defensive unit and the team as a whole. Worked a fucking treat.

Lets try learning from past experience rather than ignoring it. At the very least it will be cheaper than shifting defensive units out en mass every other transfer window.

 

[mancity1]

So we overhaul the back line and the keeper and then what? The defensive issues apparent since the Arsenal pre season friendly just disappear? Didn't we try this under Hughes? Conceding goals and making mistakes well get a new back 4 and keeper. Still conceding goals? Ok we didn't get the right back 4 so we will start again. Except we didn't. We got rid of Hughes and actually tried coaching the defensive unit and the team as a whole. Worked a fucking treat.

Lets try learning from past experience rather than ignoring it. At the very least it will be cheaper than shifting defensive units out en mass every other transfer window.

Bob's got a point , you are at your best or at least hardest to beat when everybody is in sync when you have and don't have the ball.

I saw Suarez even when Liverpool were 4-0 up back tracking time and again in the final third setting up the play on the weekend.

Rooney does it often even when in the traditional strikers role.

It requires energy , drive and a smart football brain and usually the dumbest of them all have that in spades.

Its not that we are not capable of doing likewise but for reasons that MP will have to sort out if he is to last his two years will have to get us doing likewise.

 

[NipHolmes]

So we overhaul the back line and the keeper and then what? The defensive issues apparent since the Arsenal pre season friendly just disappear? Didn't we try this under Hughes? Conceding goals and making mistakes well get a new back 4 and keeper. Still conceding goals? Ok we didn't get the right back 4 so we will start again. Except we didn't. We got rid of Hughes and actually tried coaching the defensive unit and the team as a whole. Worked a fucking treat.

Lets try learning from past experience rather than ignoring it. At the very least it will be cheaper than shifting defensive units out en mass every other transfer window.

Mancini wanted to get rid of Kolarov, Lescott, Richards and Hart at some time or other. He wanted Begovic, Javi Martinez and Thiago Silva recently so spare me the bullshit.

Mancini set us up well but we failed to score as often as we should as consequence.

We have gone from Yin to Yang. We need somewhere in the middle but if we continue Yang we need a top back line. Simple really.

 

[BobKowalski]

So we overhaul the back line and the keeper and then what? The defensive issues apparent since the Arsenal pre season friendly just disappear? Didn't we try this under Hughes? Conceding goals and making mistakes well get a new back 4 and keeper. Still conceding goals? Ok we didn't get the right back 4 so we will start again. Except we didn't. We got rid of Hughes and actually tried coaching the defensive unit and the team as a whole. Worked a fucking treat.

Lets try learning from past experience rather than ignoring it. At the very least it will be cheaper than shifting defensive units out en mass every other transfer window.

Mancini wanted to get rid of Kolarov, Lescott, Richards and Hart at some time or other. He wanted Begovic, Javi Martinez and Thiago Silva recently so spare me the bullshit.

Mancini set us up well but we failed to score as often as we should as consequence.

We have gone from Yin to Yang. We need somewhere in the middle but if we continue Yang we need a top back line. Simple really.

We failed to score as often as we should last season. The previous season we did fine. Last season we created chances but didn't stick them away as often as we should have. You can still have an excellent well marshalled defence with the team defending from the strikers down and still score shed loads of goals. This is not me being fanciful but pointing out that we did precisely this in the 11/12 season.

I am not saying that the team does not or should not evolve. Last season we upgraded Lescott to Nasty who more than deserved his first team place and I say this as a fan of Lescott. Equally Mancini was getting annoyed with Hart who he believed should concentrate on playing football and improving his game rather than listening to the hype. That he was looking to replace Hart and Pellers did it within 10 games has its own irony.

But this is not what you and others are advocating. What you are doing is lumping the poor start to the season on the 4 constantly rotating poor bastards at the back and having them shot. The problem is not just the players at the back. Its a system weakness. Its a coaching weakness (or philosophy if you prefer). Its a mentality weakness. Its about team shape and drills as a unit etc etc you know the things the players complained about as being 'boring' under Mancini.

We are no longer difficult to beat. I know this because we keep getting fucking beat and correcting it isn't as simple as replacing the 4 poor bastards at the back. Either Pellers reverts back to what we used to do well or he converts the team to a high line/high pressing/high energy whirlwind for 90+ mins of every game. At the moment we are stuck firmly in the middle of no mans land and getting shat on every other game.

And people wonder why we are 8th and have lost 4 fucking games by early November. Like its a fucking mystery.

 

[sh249]

So we overhaul the back line and the keeper and then what? The defensive issues apparent since the Arsenal pre season friendly just disappear? Didn't we try this under Hughes? Conceding goals and making mistakes well get a new back 4 and keeper. Still conceding goals? Ok we didn't get the right back 4 so we will start again. Except we didn't. We got rid of Hughes and actually tried coaching the defensive unit and the team as a whole. Worked a fucking treat.

Lets try learning from past experience rather than ignoring it. At the very least it will be cheaper than shifting defensive units out en mass every other transfer window.

Mancini wanted to get rid of Kolarov, Lescott, Richards and Hart at some time or other. He wanted Begovic, Javi Martinez and Thiago Silva recently so spare me the bullshit.

Mancini set us up well but we failed to score as often as we should as consequence.

We have gone from Yin to Yang. We need somewhere in the middle but if we continue Yang we need a top back line. Simple really.

We failed to score as often as we should last season. The previous season we did fine. Last season we created chances but didn't stick them away as often as we should have. You can still have an excellent well marshalled defence with the team defending from the strikers down and still score shed loads of goals. This is not me being fanciful but pointing out that we did precisely this in the 11/12 season.

I am not saying that the team does not or should not evolve. Last season we upgraded Lescott to Nasty who more than deserved his first team place and I say this as a fan of Lescott. Equally Mancini was getting annoyed with Hart who he believed should concentrate on playing football and improving his game rather than listening to the hype. That he was looking to replace Hart and Pellers did it within 10 games has its own irony.

But this is not what you and others are advocating. What you are doing is lumping the poor start to the season on the 4 constantly rotating poor bastards at the back and having them shot. The problem is not just the players at the back. Its a system weakness. Its a coaching weakness (or philosophy if you prefer). Its a mentality weakness. Its about team shape and drills as a unit etc etc you know the things the players complained about as being 'boring' under Mancini.

We are no longer difficult to beat. I know this because we keep getting fucking beat and correcting it isn't as simple as replacing the 4 poor bastards at the back. Either Pellers reverts back to what we used to do well or he converts the team to a high line/high pressing/high energy whirlwind for 90+ mins of every game. At the moment we are stuck firmly in the middle of no mans land and getting shat on every other game.

And people wonder why we are 8th and have lost 4 fucking games by early November. Like its a fucking mystery.

Hardly getting shat on, but I agree that we're kind of falling between two stools (pun unintended) at the moment. But then it's also obvious that Pellegrini does want us to be a high line, high pressing, high energy team - the problem is that the players are still struggling with it, not aided by the huge number of changes at the back. That doesn't absolve Pellegrini of all blame, not by a long chalk, and I thought he got it wrong leaving Zabaleta and Clichy out on top of the injury to Nastasic. But there is a huge difference between the way we played last season and how he wants us to play - a far greater shift, for example, than Benitez - Mourinho or Ferguson - Moyes. So it's not that surprising that there's some teething problems. Frustrating as fuck, but not surprising.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Richards is poor now. I can't see him every being a top player. He doesn't get picked for England for a reason. He isn't good enough.

Clichy is having a mare this season so we have relied on Kolorov but he isn't the long term solution and neither is Clichy.

Lescott is finished here and will only play when we are desperate.

We need a new CB and new LB and did in the summer.

 

[6one]

Surprised at the criticism of playing Kolarov rather than Clichy given how poor clichy has been and that 2 of our rare chances came from great crosses of Kolarov.

 

[BobKowalski]

Mancini wanted to get rid of Kolarov, Lescott, Richards and Hart at some time or other. He wanted Begovic, Javi Martinez and Thiago Silva recently so spare me the bullshit.

Mancini set us up well but we failed to score as often as we should as consequence.

We have gone from Yin to Yang. We need somewhere in the middle but if we continue Yang we need a top back line. Simple really.

We failed to score as often as we should last season. The previous season we did fine. Last season we created chances but didn't stick them away as often as we should have. You can still have an excellent well marshalled defence with the team defending from the strikers down and still score shed loads of goals. This is not me being fanciful but pointing out that we did precisely this in the 11/12 season.

I am not saying that the team does not or should not evolve. Last season we upgraded Lescott to Nasty who more than deserved his first team place and I say this as a fan of Lescott. Equally Mancini was getting annoyed with Hart who he believed should concentrate on playing football and improving his game rather than listening to the hype. That he was looking to replace Hart and Pellers did it within 10 games has its own irony.

But this is not what you and others are advocating. What you are doing is lumping the poor start to the season on the 4 constantly rotating poor bastards at the back and having them shot. The problem is not just the players at the back. Its a system weakness. Its a coaching weakness (or philosophy if you prefer). Its a mentality weakness. Its about team shape and drills as a unit etc etc you know the things the players complained about as being 'boring' under Mancini.

We are no longer difficult to beat. I know this because we keep getting fucking beat and correcting it isn't as simple as replacing the 4 poor bastards at the back. Either Pellers reverts back to what we used to do well or he converts the team to a high line/high pressing/high energy whirlwind for 90+ mins of every game. At the moment we are stuck firmly in the middle of no mans land and getting shat on every other game.

And people wonder why we are 8th and have lost 4 fucking games by early November. Like its a fucking mystery.

Hardly getting shat on, but I agree that we're kind of falling between two stools (pun unintended) at the moment. But then it's also obvious that Pellegrini does want us to be a high line, high pressing, high energy team - the problem is that the players are still struggling with it, not aided by the huge number of changes at the back. That doesn't absolve Pellegrini of all blame, not by a long chalk, and I thought he got it wrong leaving Zabaleta and Clichy out on top of the injury to Nastasic. But there is a huge difference between the way we played last season and how he wants us to play - a far greater shift, for example, than Benitez - Mourinho or Ferguson - Moyes. So it's not that surprising that there's some teething problems. Frustrating as fuck, but not surprising.

Ha - I liked the pun unintended or not.

To be honest I am not currently seeing a great deal of difference in how we play this season to previous seasons. With Navas on the bench, Nasri and Silva working in tandem, full backs proving width etc its just the style we have played previously except Nasri is playing better and the defence sucks as we sort of half heartedly pay lip service to Pellers grand vision (or Txiki's or whoever the vision belongs to). It may be a greater shift (and I am not wholly convinced it is or a greater shift than say Everton under Moyes to Everton under Martinez) but we are still making a poor fist of it.

Also last season should not be the bench mark. We finished 2nd and its was a disappointment both results and performance wise. Surely we should be looking at the 11/12 season as our standard and striving to do better than that. Its annoying to hear so many say well at least 'the performances are better than last season' as if that made losing 4 away games and being 8th somehow ok. Since when did we regress to the point that being better than some dire performances last season was the new gold standard?