Toni Kroos

[cucumberman]

yaya was a one off. He set the bar so high in the early years with us even he can no longer get near that level. 3 goals in 68 for real tells me kroos won't come close either, to be honest i don't think anyone playing midfield for us will.

Yaya had 4 goals in 74 with Barca. It's amazing what a manager and the right tactics can do. Yaya was never a run around in circles player. He compensate his ambling demeanour, granted he can pick up pace, with speedy passes. Fortunately for us, Pep is more about the speed of the pass than the run of the player.

But I feel it's too little too late. Yaya's somewhat disillusioned about his future, maybe the wonder world painted by Dimitri Seluk

 

[Neville Kneville]

My two cents: I think a motivated & fit Yaya could in theory do what we're asking Kroos to do, but I have no idea how we could ever know that we're getting that Yaya. I'm not particularly worried about the ground Yaya would have to cover under Pep, and I'm likewise not terribly bothered by the lack of ground Kroos covers. It's more the urgency Kroos has (and that Yaya doesn't these days)... when Kroos gets the ball, he immediately has his head high and looks for the most advanced safe harbor up the pitch. That process happens very quickly. Doesn't matter if Kroos isn't quick in a foot race, the ball is quick up the pitch when it goes through him. I think Yaya has those passes and that ability in his locker, but I don't see him making himself constantly available, and I feel like our play occasionally slows when he gets it (compared to Kroos). If the ball went from backline, through Yaya, to an attacking midfielder in only a few seconds, with regularity, then sure... I'd hear the case. Just doesn't feel like that's always his natural tempo.

Yaya has been playing for Manuel Pellegrini though. In the same setup, Kroos would be surrounded by 6 Liverpool players with our lads loafing about disinterested in front of him. His best option often Joe Hart.

 

[Tron Coltrane]

yaya was a one off. He set the bar so high in the early years with us even he can no longer get near that level. 3 goals in 68 for real tells me kroos won't come close either, to be honest i don't think anyone playing midfield for us will.

I think we're all talking about whether or not Yaya can do the job Kroos would be called in to do, not the job Yaya used to do. Comparing Kroos to what Yaya's role used to be isn't very helpful. It's about as enlightening as comparing Modric to what Yaya used to be, in which case Modric's scoring record is shit.

 

[Neville Kneville]

That's exactly what I mean about him dictating the possession and pace of our play, how many times did we see it last season where we had possession of the ball and we "slowed" the play down to nigh on walking pace through Yaya side to side, back, middle, side to side?

When Kroos gets the ball his first thought is forward, same as KDB, both Pep style players

Did Yaya really have so many options for playing a quick ball ?

 

[domalino]

That's exactly what I mean about him dictating the possession and pace of our play, how many times did we see it last season where we had possession of the ball and we "slowed" the play down to nigh on walking pace through Yaya side to side, back, middle, side to side?

When Kroos gets the ball his first thought is forward, same as KDB, both Pep style players

I think a lot of that is to do with Yaya's physical drop off though. He's moving slower, he's not as high up the pitch when he gets the ball, he's in less space because people can close him down quicker and all that shuts down forward passing opportunities.

He's also lost that little burst of pace to beat a player before passing the ball.

 

[Tron Coltrane]

Yaya has been playing for Manuel Pellegrini though. In the same setup, Kroos would be surrounded by 6 Liverpool players with our lads loafing about disinterested in front of him. His best option often Joe Hart.

Which is part of why I hedged my comment: I think it's possible that Yaya could be that. I just haven't seen it, and I don't know how we could be confident we had that going into the season. Just a case of once bitten twice shy with him. I'd feel more comfortable with somebody who already plays that way with regularity.

That said, the club is staffed by my betters. If Pep sees it in Yaya -- maybe the two go on a weekend fishing trip, really get inside each other's heads -- and he feels Yaya can fill that role for us this season, I'll retract my "time for Yaya to go" statements and see what the season brings.

 

[domalino]

Did Yaya really have so many options for playing a quick ball ?

I don't think he had more options in 13/14 when he was lethal on the transition with a quick ball out to Navas or Aguero.

With sterling on the other side this year he probably had 1 extra option running ahead of him wanting the early pass.

Yaya is the one who changed.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Which is part of why I hedged my comment: I think it's possible that Yaya could be that. I just haven't seen it, and I don't know how we could be confident we had that going into the season. Just a case of once bitten twice shy with him. I'd feel more comfortable with somebody who already plays that way with regularity.

That said, the club is staffed by my betters. If Pep sees it in Yaya -- maybe the two go on a weekend fishing trip, really get inside each other's heads -- and he feels Yaya can fill that role for us this season, I'll retract my "time for Yaya to go" statements and see what the season brings.

Possibly that is what Pep is doing right now.

 

[johnmc]

With the right attitude Yaya has another year in him I think. It's just whether his mind and heart is still with us.

 

[Tron Coltrane]

I think a lot of that is to do with Yaya's physical drop off though. He's moving slower, he's not as high up the pitch when he gets the ball, he's in less space because people can close him down quicker and all that shuts down forward passing opportunities.

He's also lost that little burst of pace to beat a player before passing the ball.

Right, but Kroos has no real athletic presence (which most are quick to point out). He moves slowly for a professional footballer, he's often not placed far up the pitch, and he's frequently in little space where people close him down quickly. But under those circumstances, he's carved out a really successful style and career.