Top Policeman Lied Over Hillsborough

[jay_mcfc]

Sheffield Wednesday had electronic turnstiles that counted the number of fans that had come through. The police could have found out how many fans were in the Leppings Lane end by contacting Sheff Weds and they would have known in a matter of minutes.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

What I'm saying is once the exit had been opened it would have been probably physically impossible to close the tunnel off .
But if the tunnel had been closed off then the gate opennd the outcome may have been different

Absolutely. But the central pens were probably overcrowded even before the gate was opened. Two separate studies showed that the crowd in Leppings Lane at the time of the disaster was no greater than the capacity of that stand and consistent with the number of tickets sold. Therefore if the side pens were relatively unoccupied, it shows the horrendous scale of the overcrowding in the central pens.

Is it really that complicated? Why has it taken 26 years to do the sums?

These were done soon after the event. Most of these "revelations" have been known about for years by anyone who's taken an interest in the case but it took the HIP to really get them to the forefront. The only real surprise has been the scale and depth of the cover-up.

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

Sheffield Wednesday had electronic turnstiles that counted the number of fans that had come through. The police could have found out how many fans were in the Leppings Lane end by contacting Sheff Weds and they would have known in a matter of minutes.

Only a guess they would have known how many in were in the end but wouldn't have known the numbers in the central pens.that should have been obvious to spot from the police control box overlooking the pens

 

[East Level 2]

Sheffield Wednesday had electronic turnstiles that counted the number of fans that had come through. The police could have found out how many fans were in the Leppings Lane end by contacting Sheff Weds and they would have known in a matter of minutes.

Only a guess they would have known how many in were in the end but wouldn't have known the numbers in the central pens.that should have been obvious to spot from the police control box overlooking the pens

Correct. The turnstile blocks were for access to all terrace pens. However fans couldn't move from the central pens to the relatively empty corner pens from on the terraces, they had to gain access from the area behind the stand.
The police could see the central pens were significantly more full than the corners but even that didn't make then close the central pens.
They got away with it in 81 and 88 but failed to learn any lessons.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Because there are still far too many people that don't fully understand why this is 100% on the SYP, I am going to write up a brief account of exactly what happened on that fateful day and things that occurred leading up to it.

HILLSBOROUGH STADIUM

Hillsborough had been used for a number of FA Cup semi finals in the 20 years prior to 1989 and had the benefit of a large capacity, excellent CCTV for the time and electronic turnstiles that could count the number of people that had entered the ground. However, they had an out of date health and safety certificate and the barriers and fencing in the Leppings Lane end were not suitable according to stadium guidelines that were made in the 80's. Furthermore, in 1981 at the Wolves v Tottenham semi final there were similar problems that resulted in fans climbing the fencing to escape a crushing situation. Police opened the gates at the front and allowed fans to sit around the edge of the pitch and thankfully a potentially dangerous situation was averted. There was also some reported problems in 1988 when Liverpool were the set of fans occupying the Leppings Lane end but again the game passed without serious consequences. There were other previous problems with crowd control too, but too many to name here.

PRIOR TO THE GAME

Disturbingly, David Duckenfield was only in his position of Chief Superintendent for 19 days before the match and had very little experience of controlling football matches, especially of this magnitude. His predecessor, Mole, was highly experienced with crowd control at Hillsborough but was transferred from his position hastily when two police officers under his control took part in a prank that backfired and resulted in a major SYP investigation. This had nothing at all to do with Mole, and his removal from commander of the 1989 semi final is a factor many believe that contributed hugely to the 96 deaths. He had the experience and knowledge to deal with the problems that occurred whilst Duckenfield was inexperienced and not prepared for what happened.

Allocation: Liverpool, having been worried about the safety of their supporters the year before, asked the FA to change the allocation for the 1989 game. Liverpool were considered to have a larger fan base than Forest but they were given only 24,500 tickets in comparison to the 29,500 that Forest received. The FA refused the request and went ahead with the plans as was the previous year.

THE DAY OF THE GAME

Liverpool supporters had been given 44% of the overall ground capacity, but only around 25% of the turnstile use.

Outside the Leppings Lane end of the ground the police presence is is shockingly low. There is no organisation and no attempt to try to create lines for the fans to stand in as they approach the turnstiles. Instead, a 'bottle neck' effect was formed and as the crowd got bigger later on, there was a risk of crushing outside the ground. The only police presence in fact was at the turnstiles, where fans were searched before and after entering the ground. This is a reason to explain why there was such a big build up of supporters outside the ground as entry was too slow to deal with the number of supporters coming through a limited number of turnstiles.

I saw a photo today that was shown in court. It was taken at 13:53pm, over an hour before the game started and already pens 3 and 4 behind the goal are pretty full whilst the side pens and top tier are practically empty. Other than pens 3 and 4 the rest of the Liverpool end is quiet and it's obvious that from that point their fans are going to be arriving late.

2:33pm: Today in court a former crowd control commander, Hopkins, has given evidence about what he thinks is the situation at that point (whilst watching videos and CCTV). Pens 3 and 4 are already full but the other pens have plenty of space. Outside there are huge numbers gathering and the atmosphere is changing. Hopkins said that he believed the number of people outside meant that kick off should have been delayed at that point. There were approximately 5700 supporters outside trying to enter into 7 turnstiles. According to the numbers this would have taken until around 3:40pm to get all the supporters inside the ground. With a delay of kick off the police could have announced this and it would have calmed the crowd down outside who feared they were missing kick off. It would also have given the police time to regain control of a situation they had lost.

2:40pm John Motson, commentating for Match of the Day, talks for some time about how it appears that pens 3 and 4 are already overcrowded whilst the rest of the pens have plenty of room.

By now there is a very real concern that there could be a crush outside the ground as the huge numbers trying to enter the ground and the lack of police creates problems. Some people are seen being carried over the top of supporters to avoid being crushed.

2:50pm At this point pens 3 and 4 are full to capacity. The official capacity for both combined are around 1600 but it is estimated that by this time there were already more than that inside.

Meanwhile, the fear of a crush outside led Duckenfield to fatefully open Gate C, which was an exit gate that was opened to allow fans into the stadium without going through the turnstiles. Approximately 2000 supporters entered through the gate at this time. Most headed for the central pens behind the goal, 3 and 4 which were already full. Opening Gate C was the correct decision to ease the pressure on the fans outside the ground. However, prior to the opening of gate C, the doors entering the tunnel into pens 3 and 4 should have been closed and supporters should have been redirected to the side pens. It's believed that two well placed policemen on horses could have helped to solve this issue. The failure to close the gate of the tunnel has this week been described by Duckenfield as 'directly the cause of the 96 deaths', something he now takes full responsibility for.

3pm: The match kicks off on time and now it is estimated there are over 3000 fans in pens 3 and 4, double the official capacity. Fans entering the stadium are not aware of the situation developing but the fans at the front are very concerned. In fact, it is probable that there are already a number of fatalities as the game kicks off.

3:02pm Fans start to climb fences and ask police to open the gates at the front to escape from the crushing. Some fans are allowed on the pitch, other fans are being lifted up to the top tier and the police at the front can now see that it is a very serious situation.

3:04pm Peter Beardsley hits the crossbar, causing more crushes in the pens. One supporter who has made it on to the perimeter of the pitch collapses and requires urgent medical attention. This is the point that Duckenfield realises the situation is extremely concerning, however he decides to radio in for more police with dogs to enter the stadium instead of medical and fire emergences.

3:06pm Now many fans have entered the pitch and the referee stops the game as Duckenfield finally calls for medical assistance. A number of fans are are lying on the pitch receiving CPR, mainly from fellow supporters rather than medical professionals.

Meanwhile some fans attempting to escape the crush by climbing over the fence are being pushed back in by the police as it seems fear of hooliganism is more important than the severity of the crushing situation.

Gates at the front of the stand have been opened by now but they are inadequate in terms of releasing the number of fans necessary at that point. Other fans and police are trying to rip down the fences at the front with their bare hands as the fire service with metal cutting equipment still have not been called by Duckenfield.

3:10pm The situation is obviously now a tragic one as some supporters are lying dead on the pitch. Still the Liverpool supporters are the main source of help for the injured as they give medical care and bring stretchers etc.

3:13pm Finally the fire crew are called and a few minutes later the first of three ambulances finally arrive on the pitch. It is said that other ambulances couldn't enter the pitch as they were blocked out by other parked up ambulances. This resulted in casualties being taken the full length of the pitch to be treated by medical professionals.

This was also the time that commentators and media at the game were told that drunken Liverpool fans stormed Gate C and caused the crush. A complete lie, as Duckenfield has now said in court, that still gets said today by those that still think Liverpool fans are to blame. At that point though, the seeds were being sewn for the blame and cover up.

3:15pm This is the time that coroner Dr Popper said all those that had died were already beyond saving. This is another lie. It is now believed that 41 of those that died were still alive at this point and with the right medical attention could have had a chance of surviving. Out of the 96 that dies, only 14 were taken to hospital.

THE AFTERMATH

The gym at the stadium was used as a place to keep the dead. Polaroid photos were taken of their faces and put on a wall for families to identify. Some faces were so black and blue that they were difficult to recognise. Family members weren't allowed to touch the victims as they belonged to the coroner.

Families were also asked to do an interview in which they were asked questions about the dead. The questions were based mainly on trying to find faults.

Blood tests and alcohol levels were taken from all of the dead, including youngsters under the age of consent. Criminal records were also checked as the police looked for ways to incriminate the victims.

South Yorkshire Police made many statements and announcements declaring that thuggish, drunken, ticketless supporters were to blame for the tragedy.

THE LIES

Liverpool fans were involved in Heysel so it can't be a coincidence that they were involved in this. LIE. There is zero connection between the two tragedies and people still making out like there is make my blood boil.

Liverpool fans were drunk and behaving badly. LIE. It was a cup semi final and the crowd were joyous and having a few drinks. There was no evidence that drunkenness played any part in the crushing.

Ticketless Liverpool fans caused the overcrowding. LIE. Two different reports state that the overall number of people in the Liverpool end was in accordance with the number of tickets sold.



(This has taken much longer to write than I thought and I'm off to bed. If there are any inaccuracies let me know, this is off the top of my head from what I have read and watched recently. If anyone has anything to add please do so, but I will not accept anyone saying Liverpool fans were in any way to blame.)

 

[The Future's Blue]

Sad.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Well done Jay. It's staggering, in the face of everything that's now known, that anyone still believes it was somehow the fault of pissed up, ticketless fans.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Well done Jay. It's staggering, in the face of everything that's now known, that anyone still believes it was somehow the fault of pissed up, ticketless fans.

It is no longer an option to use alcohol, tickets, hooliganism, reputation or Heysel as any kind of even minute contribution to the disaster. People can no longer give their opinion on why Liverpool fans were partly to blame. All of the information, evidence, videos etc are out there in the open and now there are finally admissions of guilt from the man in charge.

FACT: The preparation before the game and the decision to put Duckenfield in charge was unforgivable. I heard today Liverpool fans had 29 turnstiles in total. Forest had 60.

FACT: The policing on the day, lead from the top, was unforgivable.

FACT: The treatment of the fans, victims and their families in the aftermath was unforgivable.

FACT: The cover ups, the deceit, the lies and the slandering of Liverpool fans, victims and their families are a stain on the country and almost, almost as terrible as the tragedy itself.

FACT: Liverpool fans were not 1% to blame for what happened.

 

[blueinsa]

Just watched the 30/30 documentary by ESPN and its harrowing it really is.

JFT96.

 

[cibaman]

Well done Jay. It's staggering, in the face of everything that's now known, that anyone still believes it was somehow the fault of pissed up, ticketless fans.

It is no longer an option to use alcohol, tickets, hooliganism, reputation or Heysel as any kind of even minute contribution to the disaster. People can no longer give their opinion on why Liverpool fans were partly to blame. All of the information, evidence, videos etc are out there in the open and now there are finally admissions of guilt from the man in charge.

FACT: The preparation before the game and the decision to put Duckenfield in charge was unforgivable. I heard today Liverpool fans had 29 turnstiles in total. Forest had 60.

FACT: The policing on the day, lead from the top, was unforgivable.

FACT: The treatment of the fans, victims and their families in the aftermath was unforgivable.

FACT: The cover ups, the deceit, the lies and the slandering of Liverpool fans, victims and their families are a stain on the country and almost, almost as terrible as the tragedy itself.

FACT: Liverpool fans were not 1% to blame for what happened.

The police behaved terribly on the day and after the event. But i've always thought that the greater responsibility rests with the processes that allowed the game to take place in that stadium with that capacity.

The Leppings Lane stand was literally a deathtrap. You dont need to have the benefit of hindsight to realise that. The previous near misses should have made that perfectly clear. The capacity set for the game was far too high. They simply wanted to squeeze two sets of supporters in to two ends of a ground when one end clearly wasnt big enough.

Its right that the inquest scrutinises the actions of the police on the day. But the seeds of the disaster were sown long before the day of the game.