totally underwhelmed

[zeven]

Gstar, it seems you think City are better than we actually is! its 4 teams in PL who are better than us until we prove the difference.

1 year ago we were mid table.

 

[GStar]

Gstar, it seems you think City are better than we actually is! its 4 teams in PL who are better than us until we prove the difference.

1 year ago we were mid table.

It appears you read my posts, and then make something completely new up.

"Quote me where i have demanded we should have won at Spurs yesterday, and maybe i'll take your anti GStar BS seriously"

I've questioned our tactics and philosophies. Nothing more.

 

[samharris]

Find a qoute from Mancini that supports your claim, and i might take your anti mancini BS seriously.

Or do you imply you would have done a better job?? because it damn sounds like that. tlast season our defence was a joke, Mancini sorted it our and our attacking football might have taken a punch, (want to see how many goals difference it really is between him and hughes)
This season we got a point from WHL where we have lost for the last six seasons and you complain about Mancinis tactics.

TBH, i've never taken a single of your psots seriously... i won't lose any sleep if you don't agree with my opinion, after all, ins't that entirely the point?

I'm not anti Mancini (don't be so ignorant to put words in my mouth) i've just disagreed with you we've lined up for matches under his tenure. It could be i don't appreciate the bigger picture, or i could be that we would have got more points last season had we adapted during games as opposed to setting up "not to get beat" and finishing how we started.

I never said i'd do a better job, again, the point of forums is to express your opinion, people will disagree, debate will follow. Morons will get involved, frustrations will rise and ultimately people who can't follow rules will disappear.

Like i've said, i'm not bothered on our recent history, we've probably played a different starting XI in most of those games (no need to research and take that entirely literally).

But the fact you're happy to settle for a point without question, to me theres always areas to improve, how do you go forward if you always sit still?

1 point is 1 point....that was the difference between champs league and Europa.. Yes there are areas to improve there always are...but until the team gels and Bob earmarks those improvements and where they are required then gung ho isnt the correct route..

especially at tough away games that most thought we would lose..

 

[GStar]

Had we approached the game differently, perhaps we would have tested Spurs more. As it was we're all happy with a point because in all honesty we we're quite lucky to come away with a point.

Had we approached the game differently we might also have left ourselves exposed and lost the game. It's fun to make presumptions based on things that can never be proven.

I suspect that if this game was played in a couple of months time we would approach things very differently. But we need to remember that playing with a more attacking mentality can't be done without the risk of being hurt the other way.

-- Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:11 pm --

Rooney has nothing to do with it ffs. It was a comparision between how we wil change things quite drastically where as Utd, may bring Park in for Valencia to add more defensive ability without the ball.

Other than that they still commit players, they still make similar movement and they still play to their strengths.

You are wrong IMO. No top 4 club approaches a game against another top side the same way that they approach a game against the also rans.

There are countless examples, and not just United v Chelsea.

People are taking what i've said and are making presumptions about me advokating over the top attacking football.

I think perhaps top 4 teams will be more disciplined, buth they'll comit a number of bodies forward and continue in their same formation.

I don't think had the game been played in a few months we'd have been any different. It was a carbon copy of Arsenal away last year for me.

 

[fathellensbellend]

the thread has moved on again, and many are linking caution to being successful, again under mancini's city, i have seen nothing to suggest this will be the case.

the truth is all sorts of different teams win trophies, greece in euro 2004, or barcelona of 2 years ago, or inter milan of last season.

comparing hughes's style to mancini's is irrelevent, we have mancini now, so that is all we need to look at.

i wish someone would ask him with the amazing talent at his disposal, all over the pitch, does he feel the need to attack with so few players, and so rarely gets any bodies in the box.

and why when we have spent millions on the defence, have the best 2 goalkeepers in the country do we need to further shield the defence with another 2/3 defensively minded players, especially against top sides.

i will be the 1st to return to this thread if i see an improvement versus liverpool, but it concerns me that when as a paying fan paying top dollar all over the country, the manager has no desire to entertain.

It's going to take more than 1 or 2 games to build an understanding in the team

it's more the mindset i am worried about.

 

[zeven]

Gstar, it seems you think City are better than we actually is! its 4 teams in PL who are better than us until we prove the difference.

1 year ago we were mid table.

It appears you read my posts, and then make something completely new up.

"Quote me where i have demanded we should have won at Spurs yesterday, and maybe i'll take your anti GStar BS seriously"

I've questioned our tactics and philosophies. Nothing more.

yes, maybe Mancini felt we werent good enough or ready to play with different tactics than we did.

Mancinis philosofy? did you follow Inter? i doubt you did.

 

[GStar]

It appears you read my posts, and then make something completely new up.

"Quote me where i have demanded we should have won at Spurs yesterday, and maybe i'll take your anti GStar BS seriously"

I've questioned our tactics and philosophies. Nothing more.

yes, maybe Mancini felt we werent good enough or ready to play with different tactics than we did.

Mancinis philosofy? did you follow Inter? i doubt you did.

Again, quote me where i demanded a win.

I'm a City fan, i follow City... We're not Inter. Different league, differnet demands. What's your point?

 

[Damocles]

Errr..don't they actually play against teams that bring players from various clubs, playing various formations, with players playing out of position though? Hence it's a level playing field. You cannot compare the two, unless Spurs played three debutants yesterday that met two days ago.

Err... of course i can compare the two. Forget the opposition and look at the teams set up, build up, passing, move ment etc.

How am I supposed to examine the setup but ignore the opposition? Each team is setup to play a particular opposition, surely?

Tevez wouldn't have played up front on his own if we were playing Arsenal, for example, as we don't have to pack the midfield against them and can get stuck in/play around them. If we were playing Stoke, we would have put 3 up front and played a far wider game to exploit their narrowness.

The team was setup entirely around Spurs' team, which is what all good managers do. We played two defensive wide midfielders in Barry and SWP to help out our fullbacks against their wingers. We put four mids in the centre in De Jong, Toure, Silva and Tevez with the hope that they would cancel any threat from Modric and Huddlestone, then possibly use the pace of the team to break.

We did a good job of cancelling out their centre mids, and it was unfortunate that Richards had such a poor game as most of their threat was coming from Bale. At the start, we had Silva on the left but he wasn't doing enough to help Kolarov and Lennon was breaking through far too much. Due to this, we first tried swapping him to the right and bringing the far better SWP to the left. This didn't work as then Bale was doing us consistently.
In the second half, Barry moved across to the left, SWP went on the right and Silva was left to roam the centre, and advance past Tevez to sort of play up front. This succeeded in greatly reducing their threat from the wings, and we already had them in the centre.

The midfield was pretty packed and as they had blew themselves out a bit in the first half and not scored, we started to control the game and put a little bit of fluidity together. Slow paced, possession football was the name of the game and that's what we did to force Spurs to drop their tempo. When the tempo did drop, we picked it up a little to exploit their tiredness and they looked completely fucked up front until they made the double sub.

Zab came on and did a very good job, and when Ade came on it was a clear sign that we were happy to then try and nick a goal using his aerial threat rather than packing the midfield. This was actually quite clever when you think about it. They knackered themselves playing top paced football for the first half an hour whilst we sat back and absorbed the pressure (I'm not saying us absorbing it was a deliberate ploy). Once we started to contol the game, we played possession football and took advantage of the fact that they were pressing us, to further tire them out whilst we nicely passed the ball around ourselves, especially between our packed midfield. At the end of the game, we could open up a bit because they were fucked and we'd been taking 5 seconds for each pass. Thus, Adebayor came on as a target man (and earlier AJ to exploit the now tired Assou Ekotto who had been frantically charging up and down the pitch after Bale half of the game) as Tevez's midfield skills were no longer needed, Silva dropped in behind him, and the fullbacks started to advance down the wings more.

When you have a team that's unfit like ours, playing slow paced football whilst the other team frantically charges around will level the playing field and Mancini obviously thought that we were ready with ten minutes to go. He wanted us to then go out and nick a goal.

My point in all of this, is that platitudes don't work in football and this is a trap that journalists have introduced to the game. We didn't particularly play to not get beat, we set out to counter their threat in the midfield (particularly in the centre against two top players who tore us last time) whilst leaving us a few attacking options in Silva's creativity, Yaya's drive forward and Tevez's ability to bring other players into the game, such as SWP and Barry.

I do see your point, that we setup to stop their threats rather than concentrating on our own, but some teams you have to do this against. Our threats come from our wings mainly, and there's just no way that a brand new Silva could be trusted to instantly create against a very good right back in Corluka who hasn't had the World Cup that he has. You could have played Johnson there, but then you are putting the entire pressure of Lennon on Kolarov who is another who is used to a far slower league as Johnson isn't great defensively). Putting him against one of the Prem's fastest players on his own is asking for trouble.

You can't just ignore the other team when you setup your formation and layout, even if you're Barcelona and you are playing Wolves. You have to balance the realities of your team on the day versus the realities of their and weigh this up against the result overall. To say "well, we should have setup to win the game" is wrong simply because we did setup to win the game by countering their threats and exploiting our own. It's the balance of these two things that you seem to disagree with.

That's fair enough, some people enjoy Hughes' gung-ho type of football that he played on occasion. I'd prefer us to win every game 1-0 than lose every game 4-3. In fact, I'd prefer us to draw every game 0-0 than lose 4-3. Points on the board is what matters at this stage, and the realities of the two squads on the day meant that they were stronger so we must first stop their threat before presenting ours.

 

[Anonymous]

People are taking what i've said and are making presumptions about me advokating over the top attacking football.

I think perhaps top 4 teams will be more disciplined, buth they'll comit a number of bodies forward and continue in their same formation.

I don't think had the game been played in a few months we'd have been any different. It was a carbon copy of Arsenal away last year for me.

You're pushing shit uphill in this thread mate...;- )

Yesterday for me was no surprise. If I'm honest, I'm resigned to it. Mancini is not about to change his footballing philosophy just because the has better players at his disposal. It is what it is. What I find fascinating is the number of people who are refusing to even acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, with the money which has been spent, the expectation is to go into every game (including those against the big 4) with the aim of winning that game. We certainly didn't look like we were particularly going after the win, especially after the hour mark.

 

[moomba]

Arsenal match was another where people had unrealistic expectations of how we should have played.