totally underwhelmed

[GStar]

Fuck me, that's a totally one eyed post. I can't be arsed going through it point by point, but whatever the game plan was for Mancini, it went tits up in the first half and Joe Hart saved us from a hiding. Now some may say, "oh, he's a great manager, because he saw it wasn't working and changed it in the second half". The alternative view is to employ a manager who can go into a game against a team like Spurs, and dominate them the way they dominated us (twice last season and again yesterday). The alternative view is to have a manager with the nous to outwit Rednapp and actually get three points rather than clinging on for one (albeit it's an improvement on the poor performance at home at the end of last season)...

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise this discussion. Bluemoon will go back to being much more interesting when people can be objective about Mancini rather than so insecure about him they need to defend every decision he makes...

I'm trying to be objective mate, Manicni isn't a god yet his record shows he's no slouch.

I've pointed out areas we seem to continually fail in (imo) and yet i'm now "anti Mancini" i "don't watch football" and a simple opinion of parts of our set up have been twisted into extreme views.

I shouldn't be surprised, BM has never been great for people to actually listen to others.<br /><br />-- Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:39 pm --<br /><br />

Quote; It was a carbon copy of Arsenal away last year for me.


We were desperate not to lose in that game cos of our race with spuds for champs league. we went with a plan and it succeeded we got a point..

Bob went with a plan at spuds to not lose and we didnt ..a team lacking in confidence due to the new players and hardly any training together is not going to get owt at spuds so why try ?? Passing practice against the spuds is a start tbh.

And a game where Arsenal we're missing the spine of our team, we "succeeded" in getting one point, and ultimately we're playing Europa League this season.

Had we perhaps contained Arsenal initially, realised how toothless they were that day and decided to perhaps commit 2-3 players forward, we may well have guarenteed CL football before the Suprs match even came round.

Imo, it wasn't an OOT risk against Arsenal, they'd just been beaten by Wigan and we're there for the taking if we'd have had better balance between defence and attack.

Plus i didn't think we looked low on confidence, the new players all looked good.

 

[Damocles]

Fuck me, that's a totally one eyed post. I can't be arsed going through it point by point, but whatever the game plan was for Mancini, it went tits up in the first half and Joe Hart saved us from a hiding. Now some may say, "oh, he's a great manager, because he saw it wasn't working and changed it in the second half". The alternative view is to employ a manager who can go into a game against a team like Spurs, and dominate them the way they dominated us (twice last season and again yesterday). The alternative view is to have a manager with the nous to outwit Rednapp and actually get three points rather than clinging on for one (albeit it's an improvement on the poor performance at home at the end of last season)...

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise this discussion. Bluemoon will go back to being much more interesting when people can be objective about Mancini rather than so insecure about him they need to defend every decision he makes...

I think you read something into that that wasn't there, or at least I came across incorrectly.

My point is that Mancini made several mistakes in his initial setup that he then had to rectify during the game due either to his initial selection, or player's form. As far as I can recall, his mistakes were:

Initially playing Silva on the left and Barry in the centre.
Instead of swapping SWP and Silva, he should have immediately moved Barry to the left when Lennon was tearing us apart.
Snookering himself in regards to Silva, who was poor on the left, and was crowded out in the centre until Tevez went off which left space for him to work within.
Taking 80 minutes to setup to nick a goal, which should have being done ten minutes earlier.
Not subbing Richards for Zab at half time when it was clear that he was having a torrid time (though his hand was forced with the Kolarov knock).
Having Jo on the bench for absolutely no reason that I can fathom. I can't envisage a single scenario whereby Jo would have been needed against Spurs when Ade was on the bench.

My point is that he made some mistakes but he reacted to them well. It would have been nice if he tactically outclassed Redknapp, but I don't see him doing that at this stage of the season. Also, I'd much prefer us to cling on for one point, than try to play around them and get twatted like we did under Hughes there last season.

 

[buzzer1]

Fuck me, that's a totally one eyed post. I can't be arsed going through it point by point, but whatever the game plan was for Mancini, it went tits up in the first half and Joe Hart saved us from a hiding. Now some may say, "oh, he's a great manager, because he saw it wasn't working and changed it in the second half". The alternative view is to employ a manager who can go into a game against a team like Spurs, and dominate them the way they dominated us (twice last season and again yesterday). The alternative view is to have a manager with the nous to outwit Rednapp and actually get three points rather than clinging on for one (albeit it's an improvement on the poor performance at home at the end of last season)...

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise this discussion. Bluemoon will go back to being much more interesting when people can be objective about Mancini rather than so insecure about him they need to defend every decision he makes...

I'm trying to be objective mate, Manicni isn't a god yet his record shows he's no slouch.

I've pointed out areas we seem to continually fail in (imo) and yet i'm now "anti Mancini" i "don't watch football" and a simple opinion of parts of our set up have been twisted into extreme views.

I shouldn't be surprised, BM has never been great for people to actually listen to others.

Understatement of the decade that mate. Its not about people having differing views as to me that is what its all about, and not some of the aggression shown by some for merely having a differing take on things.

 

[Anonymous]

Fuck me, that's a totally one eyed post. I can't be arsed going through it point by point, but whatever the game plan was for Mancini, it went tits up in the first half and Joe Hart saved us from a hiding. Now some may say, "oh, he's a great manager, because he saw it wasn't working and changed it in the second half". The alternative view is to employ a manager who can go into a game against a team like Spurs, and dominate them the way they dominated us (twice last season and again yesterday). The alternative view is to have a manager with the nous to outwit Rednapp and actually get three points rather than clinging on for one (albeit it's an improvement on the poor performance at home at the end of last season)...

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise this discussion. Bluemoon will go back to being much more interesting when people can be objective about Mancini rather than so insecure about him they need to defend every decision he makes...

I'm trying to be objective mate, Manicni isn't a god yet his record shows he's no slouch.

I've pointed out areas we seem to continually fail in (imo) and yet i'm now "anti Mancini" i "don't watch football" and a simple opinion of parts of our set up have been twisted into extreme views.

I shouldn't be surprised, BM has never been great for people to actually listen to others.

I totally agree with a lot of what you've said in this thread. I actually think the "gelling" thing which everyone is going on about won't be that big a deal. Once everyone's match fit, which I suspect most of them aren't - everything will be fine on that front.

Roberto so far has had the excuse that they're not his players (last season), and the new players need to gel and get match fit (this season) - but come October/November those excuses will be gone and we'll see just how cautious he is.

I think a couple of years ago if someone had said to me "would you be happy to win things whilst playing safety first football" I'd have said yes. However with the investment we've made in the squad, and the calibre of players which we have at our disposal, I'm just not sure...I'll probably get a lot of stick for that but so be it.

 

[AntonDonJuan]

I thought he got it spot on yesterday. You set up differently against different teams. We plaed to not get beat which is what you have to do away at places like Spurs. If he had gone there and played all out attacking football, we would have got batterd. Once you gel and become used to each other, then you can control games more and be more dominant, but for the time being, first game with hardly any time to prepare i'm happy with yesterday.

Oh and Joe Hart was fantastic, i'm well chuffed he's our number 1 over Shay

 

[samharris]

I'm trying to be objective mate, Manicni isn't a god yet his record shows he's no slouch.

I've pointed out areas we seem to continually fail in (imo) and yet i'm now "anti Mancini" i "don't watch football" and a simple opinion of parts of our set up have been twisted into extreme views.

I shouldn't be surprised, BM has never been great for people to actually listen to others.

I totally agree with a lot of what you've said in this thread. I actually think the "gelling" thing which everyone is going on about won't be that big a deal. Once everyone's match fit, which I suspect most of them aren't - everything will be fine on that front.

Roberto so far has had the excuse that they're not his players (last season), and the new players need to gel and get match fit (this season) - but come October/November those excuses will be gone and we'll see just how cautious he is.

I think a couple of years ago if someone had said to me "would you be happy to win things whilst playing safety first football" I'd have said yes. However with the investment we've made in the squad, and the calibre of players which we have at our disposal, I'm just not sure...I'll probably get a lot of stick for that but so be it.

If come October/November things havent changed then fair do's a lot more on here including me will have big concerns...Most City fans were well happy with the point after the game yesterday and all agreed a bedding in period was expected..we rode our luck yes..but all and all things need improving and im sure they will.

 

[Mancio]

I'm trying to be objective mate, Manicni isn't a god yet his record shows he's no slouch.

I've pointed out areas we seem to continually fail in (imo) and yet i'm now "anti Mancini" i "don't watch football" and a simple opinion of parts of our set up have been twisted into extreme views.

I shouldn't be surprised, BM has never been great for people to actually listen to others.

I totally agree with a lot of what you've said in this thread. I actually think the "gelling" thing which everyone is going on about won't be that big a deal. Once everyone's match fit, which I suspect most of them aren't - everything will be fine on that front.

Roberto so far has had the excuse that they're not his players (last season), and the new players need to gel and get match fit (this season) - but come October/November those excuses will be gone and we'll see just how cautious he is.

I think a couple of years ago if someone had said to me "would you be happy to win things whilst playing safety first football" I'd have said yes. However with the investment we've made in the squad, and the calibre of players which we have at our disposal, I'm just not sure...I'll probably get a lot of stick for that but so be it.

you continue to use the word INVESTMENT.

while most of the money spent by Hughes just been thrown away.

 

[Damocles]

Damo mate, the 'ignoring the opposition' was meant in refernece, as i said, to those teams ability to pass and move and set up with little 'gel time'.

And i don't see Chelsea/Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal/Everton/Villa/Spurs set up around the opposition, they all play their own formation, similar personal and similar style.

Villa being the most rigid of the lot.

4-3-3 Big man up top, pacy wide men.

I disagree with that part.

A good example is United against teams with attacking fullbacks or wingers. During these games, they stick three in midfield to control the midfield, usually consisting of Scholes, Carrick and Fletcher, then they'll put Giggs on the left and Park on the right in front of Nani/Valencia. Both of these are better at helping their fullbacks then the last two. They'll also swap Rooney and Berbatov around depending on what defensive mid or defenders they are playing against.

In Ferguson's old season diaries, he explicitly explains that he changes personnel and tactics depending on who they are playing. This is also why they have entirely different systems for Europe and the Premier League, which they tweak weekly.

Liverpool were pretty renowned for changing tactics and personnel under Bentiez with his rotation policy which sometimes put Gerrard as a centre mid with Kuyt behind Torres, sometimes put Gerrard behind Torres with Kuyt on the wing to guard, sometimes put Lucas and Mascherano with Gerrard in front and Kuyt/Torres straight strikers.

Chelsea changed around a little under Ancelotti mainly rotating behind his diamond formation, a 4-3-1-2 and a 4-3-3. It usually depends on the width of the team that thye are playing. They love the diamond against the narrower teams as it gave their fullbacks license to charge up and down the pitch, but against the wider teams in the league they have played that strange 4-3-3/4-5-1 hybrid using Anelka and Malouda on the wings. In fact, I seem to remember them playing that yesterday against West Brom. Plus, Ancelotti is known throughout football as just being able to play the diamond, and buying players around that as he has done at Milano.

Spurs chop and change from a very wide, fast paced 4-4-2 like we saw yesterday, to playing a 4-3-1-2 with Modric moving inside and creating behind the strikers.

Villa do mostly play 4-3-3, but they have played a different type of 4-3-3 in the past with the pacey Agbonlahor up front instead of Carew. They've also played 4-4-1-1 in the past with Carew up front and Downing playing just behind him, and used to put 5 in midfield and 1 up front until Barry left.

My point is, all teams seem to change depending on player form, injuries and the opposition, even teams like Barca.

 

[Anonymous]

Fuck me, that's a totally one eyed post. I can't be arsed going through it point by point, but whatever the game plan was for Mancini, it went tits up in the first half and Joe Hart saved us from a hiding. Now some may say, "oh, he's a great manager, because he saw it wasn't working and changed it in the second half". The alternative view is to employ a manager who can go into a game against a team like Spurs, and dominate them the way they dominated us (twice last season and again yesterday). The alternative view is to have a manager with the nous to outwit Rednapp and actually get three points rather than clinging on for one (albeit it's an improvement on the poor performance at home at the end of last season)...

Anyway, it's a pointless exercise this discussion. Bluemoon will go back to being much more interesting when people can be objective about Mancini rather than so insecure about him they need to defend every decision he makes...

I think you read something into that that wasn't there, or at least I came across incorrectly.

My point is that Mancini made several mistakes in his initial setup that he then had to rectify during the game due either to his initial selection, or player's form. As far as I can recall, his mistakes were:

Initially playing Silva on the left and Barry in the centre.
Instead of swapping SWP and Silva, he should have immediately moved Barry to the left when Lennon was tearing us apart.
Snookering himself in regards to Silva, who was poor on the left, and was crowded out in the centre until Tevez went off which left space for him to work within.
Taking 80 minutes to setup to nick a goal, which should have being done ten minutes earlier.
Not subbing Richards for Zab at half time when it was clear that he was having a torrid time (though his hand was forced with the Kolarov knock).
Having Jo on the bench for absolutely no reason that I can fathom. I can't envisage a single scenario whereby Jo would have been needed against Spurs when Ade was on the bench.

My point is that he made some mistakes but he reacted to them well. It would have been nice if he tactically outclassed Redknapp, but I don't see him doing that at this stage of the season. Also, I'd much prefer us to cling on for one point, than try to play around them and get twatted like we did under Hughes there last season.

Fair enough mate, as I agree with most of those things. However what irks me is that across the body of players we have, I can almost guarantee you there's a combination of XI players, who home or away, could both defend well, and attack with intent and purpose against that Spurs team. If a team is set up to defend for large periods of a game like we were yesterday, it's almost impossible to significantly change that mentality if/when you go behind, or if the opposition fail to break you down. It's much easier to leave the gaps in the first place, knowing you can shift personnel around quickly if you think you're too exposed.

I respect the fact that everyone isn't match fit right now, and on the face of it a point at WHL is an excellent one, so there's plenty of time for this team to evolve. I think what you're reading from people like GStar is something akin to disappointment that the frustrations many had with Mancini last season, were laid bare again yesterday. Certainly he's got plenty of time to show people that his way is the right way...

 

[Damocles]

Understatement of the decade that mate. Its not about people having differing views as to me that is what its all about, and not some of the aggression shown by some for merely having a differing take on things.

BUZZER!

Welcome back mate! Now get yourself back to Off Topic, we severely miss your threads ovr there!