trade unions

[r.soleofsalford]

"If it wasn't for the unions the Miners would still have jobs".
If it wasn't for the unions British Steel would still be a major employer in the UK.
If it wasn't for the unions British manufacturing industry would still be a major player in the world economy.

But at least the principle of what they stood for was right. I bet all those unemployed former union members aere well proud of that.

this must be a wind up.

No

if it wasnt for the unions the miners would still have jobs.

what a lot of rubbish. even the miners in the nottingham coal fields that stayed at work through the strike were kicked out of there jobs by thatcher bitterness.

miner who fought to go to work and earn a living for there family`s were treated worse than arsehole who prefered to do fuck all and claim benifits all there lives

 

[waterloo blue]

If it wasn't for the unions the Miners would still have jobs.
If it wasn't for the unions British Steel would still be a major employer in the UK.
If it wasn't for the unions British manufacturing industry would still be a major player in the world economy.

But at least the principle of what they stood for was right. I bet all those unemployed former union members aere well proud of that.

Are you taking the piss,it's cheaper to have Polish miners working for peanuts digging up coal and Colombian child workers doing the same.
Than to have coal mines operating in the UK,even with the added transport costs.
British Steel was a state owned monolith run into the ground by management too scared to go to the unions and goverment and present them with the truth about competing against South Korea and India,where pay rates were a pittance,goverment subsidies for these industries were enormous compared to GDP,health and safety were at dickensian levels.
Manufacturing in every western country has been in a nosedive since the seventies,no one can compete with the Chinese on pay and conditions,I'm sure people would moan about living in dormitary's at their work,and one week off a year(unpaid) with no sickness benefits.
The unions should have concentrated more on retraining,and helping a largely redundant workforce to face the future,but I'm sure some of them were more concerned with saving their own skin,but in reality it was more like changing deckchairs on the Titanic.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

If it wasn't for the unions the Miners would still have jobs.
If it wasn't for the unions British Steel would still be a major employer in the UK.
If it wasn't for the unions British manufacturing industry would still be a major player in the world economy.

But at least the principle of what they stood for was right. I bet all those unemployed former union members aere well proud of that.

Are you taking the piss,it's cheaper to have Polish miners working for peanuts digging up coal and Colombian child workers doing the same.
Than to have coal mines operating in the UK,even with the added transport costs.
British Steel was a state owned monolith run into the ground by management too scared to go to the unions and goverment and present them with the truth about competing against South Korea and India,where pay rates were a pittance,goverment subsidies for these industries were enormous compared to GDP,health and safety were at dickensian levels.
Manufacturing in every western country has been in a nosedive since the seventies,no one can compete with the Chinese on pay and conditions,I'm sure people would moan about living in dormitary's at their work,and one week off a year(unpaid) with no sickness benefits.
The unions should have concentrated more on retraining,and helping a largely redundant workforce to face the future,but I'm sure some of them were more concerned with saving their own skin,but in reality it was more like changing deckchairs on the Titanic.

spot on

 

[robbie brewer]

this must be a wind up.

No

if it wasnt for the unions the miners would still have jobs.

what a lot of rubbish. even the miners iYou miss the point - What Scargill predicted was right. The fact he ignored some of his members to make
n the nottingham coal fields that stayed at work through the strike were kicked out of there jobs by thatcher bitterness.

miner who fought to go to work and earn a living for there family`s were treated worse than arsehole who prefered to do fuck all and claim benifits all there lives

You miss the point, what Scargill predicted was right. The fact that he chose to ignore and deny some of his members their basic right to vote is where he went wrong and eventually cost his members(strkers or not) their jobs. Also facter in the timing when British Coal had been stock piling coal for months it was a fight they could not win without total support. At the end of the strike when Scargill claimed victory there was still enough coal stock piled to go for another few months but Scargill turned family members against eachother tgo try and further his own political aims. I hope he is proud of all the divided families he created and the state of his industry.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I take it the government aren't putting the squeeze on wherever it is you work then?

I work for myself now. If I don't work - I don't eat. No cushy final salary pension to fall back on. No flexi-time (unless you count working as long as I need to, to get the job done). But it may surprise you to learn I was a union member, branch secretary and national representative a good few years ago. My chairman was a name probably well-known to you. So I'm no anti-union, right-wing, Express reader. As a union rep, I made sure my members were looked after as far as I could. But I didn't want to challenge or bring down the government becasue that's the job of the electorate, not the TUC.

But then I read of the Tube strike currently taking place over the sacking of a union rep whose case went to a tribunal. London Underground have given a promise that they will abide by the decision of the tribunal, which is likely to recommend reinstatement. Yet still the RMT came out on strike. Crow is a relic from the 1970's who represents a quite well paid group of members who have the power to be extremely disruptive. Yet he's not bright enough to use that power selectively and eventually there will be a confrontation where there will only be one winner. My union activities coincided with the miners strike in the mid-80's. None of my members were rushing to the barricades as they were horrified by Scargill's bully-boy tactics and were quite clear that his actions were politically motivated.

Ed Balls is clearly frightened that a series of strikes over having to pay a bit more into a defined benefit scheme will lose the Labour party any sympathy it might have got. (I note that his leader Red Ed, like Kinnock during that miners strike, is conspicuous by his silence).

 

[robbie brewer]

If it wasn't for the unions the Miners would still have jobs.
If it wasn't for the unions British Steel would still be a major employer in the UK.
If it wasn't for the unions British manufacturing industry would still be a major player in the world economy.

But at least the principle of what they stood for was right. I bet all those unemployed former union members aere well proud of that.

Are you taking the piss,it's cheaper to have Polish miners working for peanuts digging up coal and Colombian child workers doing the same.
Than to have coal mines operating in the UK,even with the added transport costs.
British Steel was a state owned monolith run into the ground by management too scared to go to the unions and goverment and present them with the truth about competing against South Korea and India,where pay rates were a pittance,goverment subsidies for these industries were enormous compared to GDP,health and safety were at dickensian levels.
Manufacturing in every western country has been in a nosedive since the seventies,no one can compete with the Chinese on pay and conditions,I'm sure people would moan about living in dormitary's at their work,and one week off a year(unpaid) with no sickness benefits.
The unions should have concentrated more on retraining,and helping a largely redundant workforce to face the future,but I'm sure some of them were more concerned with saving their own skin,but in reality it was more like changing deckchairs on the Titanic.

So surely with all this competition it makes sense for the unions to go to management with proposals to improve productivity not demand 8% pay increase or we'll go on strike.
Demands from unions for silly pay increases without increased productivity have killed British Industry but as any sane person can see it's the Tory's fault cos it always is.

 

[law74]

Of course, we should go back to the days when, in the interests of greed and profit, ordinary hard-working people had no choice other than to work inhumane hours in sub-human conditions and when they became ill, and when they were maimed or even killed in "occupational hazards" they were just written off as collateral damage, their families paid off with a few bob - often literally and only then if they were lucky.

Yes - thank goodness we've moved forward as a society to the point where Londoners can't get to work becasue the RMT (most of whom are far better off than the people they transport) are on strike again. Many of those people won't get paid either.

And people can't get their benefits because Job Centre staff (who have jobs and decent pensions in contrast to their customers) are on strike. And people have to make alternative arrangements for childcare or lose money/holidays because teachers are on strike.

So you know about Job Centre staff and the benefits system? Or the value of the wages that staff in the Job Centres front line are on?
I am a managerial grade of their staff and have had my pay frozen for the past number of years and am on the minimum of the grade, i.e. £21,000 per annum, a lot less than the average wage, I dont often agree with BTH as he is too right wing for my liking (i.e. he has agreed with nu-liebour lies in the past), but on this I am 100% in agreement with him.
I have been told to prepare for a ballot of strike action for the autumn, and will be voting in favour, and have already doubled the membership of the region that I work in, enough is enough, and if the tories want a fight then that is what they will get, although "Call me Dave" seems to forget that he needs the support of the lie-dems whereas the milk snatcher had a mandate of her own.
I have fought for what I believe in since I was old enough to fight, that is not going to change, this is not about public against private sector, but about those that work against those that manage, and credit to Deniro as anemployer that looks after his staff, if every manager - employer did the same there would be no need for people like me to study employment law to ensure our members were looked after, but sadly there are far too many that only see the bottom line and that is why the Trade Union Movement will continue to be a real force in the years to come.

 

[robbie brewer]

Why can't people realise that the cuts the current government are undertaking are as a direct result of the poor financial management of the last government.

Do people really see it as simply as: My dad says the tory's are c*nts so it must be true.
To many people i know complain about the state of the country but always vote the same way regardless of the fact they think the elected goverment is doing shit.
Start thinking for yourselves people

 

[law74]

Why can't people realise that the cuts the current government are undertaking are as a direct result of the poor financial management of the last government.

Do people really see it as simply as: My dad says the tory's are c*nts so it must be true.
To many people i know complain about the state of the country but always vote the same way regardless of the fact they think the elected goverment is doing shit.
Start thinking for yourselves people

Thank you.and I agree
Nu liebour continued the false economies of scale that was tyhe last tory government's undoing, but rather than addressing the problem they choose to make it worse, now we are facing a autumn where the people have no choice but to withdraw their labour to make the management see the errors of their ways.
from each by their means, to each by their means

 

[metalblue]

Of course, we should go back to the days when, in the interests of greed and profit, ordinary hard-working people had no choice other than to work inhumane hours in sub-human conditions and when they became ill, and when they were maimed or even killed in "occupational hazards" they were just written off as collateral damage, their families paid off with a few bob - often literally and only then if they were lucky.

And while the parents are working their fingers to the bone, why not shove their kids up chimneys and while we're at it, why not overfill ships too in the name of profiteering? After all, who cares if a ship goes down with all hands lost?

It wouldn't surprise me if there were a few micro-capitalists or petite bourgeoisie on here who would settle for these kind of 19th century working malpractices in exchange for a pocket full of gold.

I genuinely despair, but I despair more for anyone who works - regardless of what they do, where they work or where they are in the food chain - and aligns themselves with Lord Snooty and his pals rather than stumping up their union subs.

With the end of this month being the likely starting point for industrial action, and the obvious flashpoint being the Tory Conference in Manchester in October, we could well be heading for a(nother) winter of discontent.

Now's the time to make a stand. You're either with us or against us, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm pretty sure we have enough H&S laws in place to prevent any of the above happening regardless of unions existing or not.

The rhetoric around kids up chimneys and the such do your argument no favours at all.

I am sympathetic to the PS workers pension plight who are being asked to take an effective pay cut, its hardly their fault they were offered these benefits with the job, but that sympathy is not bottomless so, as I suspect we will get significant strike action later, rather than constructive dialog, this year, put me in the "against" camp