Trayvon Martin

[Bigga]

It's smearing and isn't allowed in the UK. Thankfully.

I think that depends on the history of the accused.

 

[Frank the Yank]

It's smearing and isn't allowed in the UK. Thankfully.

I think that depends on the history of the accused.

It depends on the "rules of evidence". I am certainly not a lawyer but there are certain rules under which stuff is admissable.

Some things are if it can be established its a "pattern of behavior". It may not if its considered "prejuidicial".

Depends on what the rules are and depends on what the judge rules. I dont think this allegation would come in.

But like I said I am not a lawyer......

 

[Bigga]

It's smearing and isn't allowed in the UK. Thankfully.

I think that depends on the history of the accused.

It depends on the "rules of evidence". I am certainly not a lawyer but there are certain rules under which stuff is admissable.

Some things are if it can be established its a "pattern of behavior". It may not if its considered "prejuidicial".

Depends on what the rules are and depends on what the judge rules. I dont think this allegation would come in.

But like I said I am not a lawyer......

That's about right, yeah.

 

[scenecreamer]

The problem is this situation is that the accusations are unproven. If it had been a prior conviction then I wouldn't have an issue. This opens a can of worms, IMO.

 

[Frank the Yank]

The problem is this situation is that the accusations are unproven. If it had been a prior conviction then I wouldn't have an issue. This opens a can of worms, IMO.

No even if someone has previous convictions, they OFTEN cannot be brought up. When I served on a jury in a criminal case, the accused had a record but it was never brought up. He did, indeed, testify and committed perjury.

The guy who he was accused of shooting testified against him and the witness' previous misdeed came into evidence-go figure.

Basically the same thing happened when my sister served on a jury in a criminal case last year......

 

[scenecreamer]

The problem is this situation is that the accusations are unproven. If it had been a prior conviction then I wouldn't have an issue. This opens a can of worms, IMO.

No even if someone has previous convictions, they OFTEN cannot be brought up. When I served on a jury in a criminal case, the accused had a record but it was never brought up. He did, indeed, testify and committed perjury.

The guy who he was accused of shooting testified against him and the witness' previous misdeed came into evidence-go figure.

Basically the same thing happened when my sister served on a jury in a criminal case last year......

Hmm, interesting. And yet this is being allowed...

 

[TCIB]

Tell me when clint shoot's the rope.

[bigimg]http://i.minus.com/ibcOkNVePjsKZs.jpg[/bigimg]

 

[pominoz]

I see he is now claiming it was "God's" plan.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-gods-plan-says-killer-of-black-teenager-20120720-22dpj.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-g ... 22dpj.html</a>

 

[scenecreamer]

Oh FFS, don't blow it out of proportion or anything.

 

[Skashion]

I see he is now claiming it was "God's" plan.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-gods-plan-says-killer-of-black-teenager-20120720-22dpj.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-g ... 22dpj.html</a>

Worse than that is that he says he doesn't regret it. What the actual fuck. You now know the kid was innocent. He wasn't doing anything suspicious, it was his paranoia which caused that death, and he doesn't even regret it. What an inhuman fucker. He didn't even sound slightly believable feigning his sorrow for Trayvon's family. That interview was conducted by an emotionless robot. Not a single shred of real empathy.

 

[pominoz]

I see he is now claiming it was "God's" plan.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-gods-plan-says-killer-of-black-teenager-20120720-22dpj.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-g ... 22dpj.html</a>

Worse than that is that he says he doesn't regret it. What the actual fuck. You now know the kid was innocent. He wasn't doing anything suspicious, it was his paranoia which caused that death, and he doesn't even regret it. What an inhuman fucker. He didn't even sound slightly believable feigning his sorrow for Trayvon's family. That interview was conducted by an emotionless robot. Not a single shred of real empathy.

I agree, although Mr Prairiemoon will find a way to defend him and the interview no doubt.

 

[KPXBLN]

I see he is now claiming it was "God's" plan.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-gods-plan-says-killer-of-black-teenager-20120720-22dpj.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-g ... 22dpj.html</a>

Worse than that is that he says he doesn't regret it. What the actual fuck. You now know the kid was innocent. He wasn't doing anything suspicious, it was his paranoia which caused that death, and he doesn't even regret it. What an inhuman fucker. He didn't even sound slightly believable feigning his sorrow for Trayvon's family. That interview was conducted by an emotionless robot. Not a single shred of real empathy.

I agree, although Mr Prairiemoon will find a way to defend him and the interview no doubt.

Maybe Trayvon was doing a Horlock and walking (home) aggressively.

 

[TCIB]

I see he is now claiming it was "God's" plan.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-gods-plan-says-killer-of-black-teenager-20120720-22dpj.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/world/it-was-g ... 22dpj.html</a>

God's plan eh ? Ok bang the fucking loonatic up or bullet in head, whichever is quickest and cheapest.

I would stick his divine warrant up his shitter so deep he will think god is touching his soul.
pfft "god", ha.

 

[scenecreamer]

Listen, if he puts "it was Gods plan" up as his defense in court then I'll join you guys, but he hasn't done that yet. He isn't claiming some "divine warrant", ffs. He didn't say god told him to do it. You guys are ridiculous.

He did express regret, btw.

 

[TCIB]

He is quoted as saying it was god's plan, i think it is a sinister attempt at manipulating good will.

He said it was "god's plan" and hence acted on it.
If not that at best it was a fate set by the lord as he seems to be saying.

What else is divine warrant if not that ?

I know it's rubbish, but this is what he is basically saying here. It was god's will and i was his tool.
This is what he is intimating.

To try and excuse an act as a result of "act of god" in a way looks like he is using religion as a protection tool.
Hence a divine warrant for his own actions.

 

[scenecreamer]

He is quoted as saying it was god's plan, i think it is a sinister attempt at manipulating good will.

He said it was "god's plan" and hence acted on it.
If not that at best it was a fate set by the lord as he seems to be saying.

What else is divine warrant if not that ?

I know it's rubbish, but this is what he is basically saying here. It was god's will and i was his tool.
This is what he is intimating.

To try and excuse an act as a result of "act of god" in a way looks like he is using religion as a protection tool.
Hence a divine warrant for his own actions.

You've created almost all of that. He was speaking in hindsight, not explaining a motive.

I do agree that it was a very cynical attempt at PR. Sean Hannity, ffs.

 

[Skashion]

Listen, if he puts "it was Gods plan" up as his defense in court then I'll join you guys, but he hasn't done that yet. He isn't claiming some "divine warrant", ffs. He didn't say god told him to do it. You guys are ridiculous.

He did express regret, btw.

No, he won't put up that defence in court. Here's his defence. I, the armed vigilante with a "hero complex", followed - against police advice and who told him to go in the opposite direction away from Trayvon Martin, and shot an unarmed minor, claiming he said "You're gonna die tonight motherfucker". Oh, and look, there's no-one around to contradict him. An absolute murderer's charter if you can get away with that. Kill someone when there's no-one around and then claim they threatened to kill you.

This is literally his defence:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2436_3BRlA[/youtube]

and we're ridiculous? You've already been proved wrong several times here. You claimed Trayvon jumped him from behind. He didn't. You claimed he jumped him when he was on the way back to his car. He didn't. Your case for supporting Zimmerman has grown ever thinner. By the way, are you going to retract and apologise for your disgraceful "not so tough now is he" comment from earlier now you've found out that the two men were face to face and Zimmerman went for his pocket before Trayvon attacked - and that's according to Zimmerman himself (i.e. your best case scenario). How was Trayvon supposed to know - and this is if we assume Zimmerman's telling the truth, that Zimmerman was going for his phone instead of a gun? Did Trayvon not have a right to fear for his life and defend himself when someone else follows him and then reaches for their pocket? Not that you have any right to take his word for it anyway. He fucking shot someone. He has every reason to lie.

 

[TCIB]

He is quoted as saying it was god's plan, i think it is a sinister attempt at manipulating good will.

He said it was "god's plan" and hence acted on it.
If not that at best it was a fate set by the lord as he seems to be saying.

What else is divine warrant if not that ?

I know it's rubbish, but this is what he is basically saying here. It was god's will and i was his tool.
This is what he is intimating.

To try and excuse an act as a result of "act of god" in a way looks like he is using religion as a protection tool.
Hence a divine warrant for his own actions.

You've created almost all of that. He was speaking in hindsight, not explaining a motive.

I do agree that it was a very cynical attempt at PR. Sean Hannity, ffs.

It was not his divine warrant no, he is warranting the action though due to divine intervention.
It is not a motive for his actions but it does not have to be either.

It is not a suicide bomber classic sense of the use of the phrase but it falls under the umbrella of it if you get me.
In the sense he is saying "divine intervention made this happen".

Then you have to ask on what authority, what warrant ?

I'll be honest though i could have worded it better but in my defence i have a blonde lady distracting me badly in ways blue peter would frown upon.

 

[scenecreamer]

Listen, if he puts "it was Gods plan" up as his defense in court then I'll join you guys, but he hasn't done that yet. He isn't claiming some "divine warrant", ffs. He didn't say god told him to do it. You guys are ridiculous.

He did express regret, btw.

No, he won't put up that defence in court. Here's his defence. I, the armed vigilante with a "hero complex", followed - against police advice and who told him to go in the opposite direction away from Trayvon Martin, and shot an unarmed minor, claiming he said "You're gonna die tonight motherfucker". Oh, and look, there's no-one around to contradict him. An absolute murderer's charter if you can get away with that. Kill someone when there's no-one around and then claim they threatened to kill you.

This is literally his defence:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2436_3BRlA[/youtube]

and we're ridiculous? You've already been proved wrong several times here. You claimed Trayvon jumped him from behind. He didn't. You claimed he jumped him when he was on the way back to his car. He didn't. Your case for supporting Zimmerman has grown ever thinner. By the way, are you going to retract and apologise for your disgraceful "not so tough now is he" comment from earlier now you've found out that the two men were face to face and Zimmerman went for his pocket before Trayvon attacked - and that's according to Zimmerman himself (i.e. your best case scenario). How was Trayvon supposed to know - and this is if we assume Zimmerman's telling the truth, that Zimmerman was going for his phone instead of a gun? Did Trayvon not have a right to fear for his life and defend himself when someone else follows him and then reaches for their pocket? Not that you have any right to take his word for it anyway. He fucking shot someone. He has every reason to lie.

No, I won't. If the kid had wanted to go home he would have. He had plenty of time. But that isn't what happened. He chose to confronted Zimmerman. And there are/were witnesses to that account.

You on the other side of this argument have been proven wrong many times. Zimmerman was injured, there was physical evidence of an altercation, there were witnesses to Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman who witnesses say was the one yelling for help, etc.

Btw, I do not and have never supported George Zimmerman. What I object to is the public trial through the media that has declared him a racist murdering child molester with a hero complex. My arguments are in the interest of objectivity.

That said, I do not believe Trayvon Martin was entirely the innocent victim apologists would have us believe. The scared little boy defense, well fuck that. If he was scared he could have simply ran home, but he didn't. I bet his girlfriend even taunted and teased him during that phone call which led him to feel he had to "man up".

Read a bit on the racial indentity of African Americans. I'll cite Crocker and Major,"Members of a stigmatized group are more likely to attribute negative feedback to prejudice than others in situations in which such an attribution is reasonable. Such attributions seem to serve a protective function for the self esteem".

My point, without getting really pedantic and long winded is that race was a salient issue in this altercation for both individuals and governed the way in which they both construed the situation.

Or we could go with the simpletons argument that Zimmerman is a racist who wanted to murder an innocent black child.

 

[Skashion]

No, I won't. If the kid had wanted to go home he would have. He had plenty of time. But that isn't what happened. He chose to confronted Zimmerman. And there are/were witnesses to that account.

You're merely proving how myopic and dogmatic you are in your support for Zimmerman despite several of your alleged versions of events being wrong even according to Zimmerman. Possibly just a forum egomaniac who can't stand to be proven wrong.

I'd love to know how you've worked all this time stuff out by the way, especially as Zimmerman's now changed his story to say Trayvon was skipping not running. At least Zimmerman's defence team, never claimed, to my knowledge that Trayvon circled back around and jumped him. You did though, and you won't even apologise for your repeating bullshit time and time again and falsely drawn conclusions. Let me tell you, you're fooling nobody on this thread by sticking to your mantra. Refusing to change your view, and especially inflammatory statements like "not so hard now is he", is making you look like the biggest knobhead on this forum.