Tuition fees

[TheMightyQuinn]

Education should be a basic human right.

Not something solely reserved for the abhorrent middle classes.

 

[Nervous Nedum]

It's all well and good saying that people should go straight into work when they finish school, but the typical job a 16-18 year old is going to get isn't really a viable career.

IMO, there should be different levels of tuition fees, depending on the degree. Nurses, doctors, teachers, science, language etc degrees should be more accessable than degrees in say American Studies, or some other pointless degree like that.

The problem with this argument is the assumption that a 16-18yr old is incapable of doing anything unless he/she goes to uni. This is nonsense. The majority of school leavers years ago did'nt go and I know of plenty who have done extremely well after starting at the foot of the ladder. It is now entrenched in the psyche of youngsters that they 'must' go to uni even though swathes of them will achieve nothing worthwhile.
These people do not need, or are incapable of benefitting from yet more years of academic training and will gain far more experience of the real world in a job.(The lack of jobs is another argument).
I repeat, the sad thing now is kids from poor backgrounds who are academically brilliant and deserve support are suffering from a lunatic policy that has levelled the abilities of everyone.

Swathes of them may achieve nothing worthwhile, but many many more will achieve something.

It's all well and good saying that people should go straight into work when they finish school, but the typical job a 16-18 year old is going to get isn't really a viable career.

IMO, there should be different levels of tuition fees, depending on the degree. Nurses, doctors, teachers, science, language etc degrees should be more accessable than degrees in say American Studies, or some other pointless degree like that.

The problem with this argument is the assumption that a 16-18yr old is incapable of doing anything unless he/she goes to uni. This is nonsense. The majority of school leavers years ago did'nt go and I know of plenty who have done extremely well after starting at the foot of the ladder. It is now entrenched in the psyche of youngsters that they 'must' go to uni even though swathes of them will achieve nothing worthwhile.
These people do not need, or are incapable of benefitting from yet more years of academic training and will gain far more experience of the real world in a job.(The lack of jobs is another argument).
I repeat, the sad thing now is kids from poor backgrounds who are academically brilliant and deserve support are suffering from a lunatic policy that has levelled the abilities of everyone.

Exactly, you say years ago. Look at how difficult it is now for many graduates with good degrees to get a job. How difficult is it going to be for me to get a job in say, 20 or 30 years time if I don't have a degree?

It's all well and good saying that people should go straight into work when they finish school, but the typical job a 16-18 year old is going to get isn't really a viable career.

IMO, there should be different levels of tuition fees, depending on the degree. Nurses, doctors, teachers, science, language etc degrees should be more accessable than degrees in say American Studies, or some other pointless degree like that.

Strongly disagree with the first part of that. I left school at 16, went ona YTS (anyone else remember them?) course for 2 years. Worked bloody hard over the following 10 years to build my career, had a number of promotions. OK I wasn't a multimillionaire tycoon but we had a comfortable life. It can be done if you are prepared to work.

I'm guessing a YTS is like a labour based job training course e.g. electrician/plumber/joiner? (Don't slate me if I'm wrong)

I've spent my entire life so far in a classroom, or on a football pitch. I've not once even thought about, wanted too, or been given the option of doing anything other than getting a degree, and getting a professional job. If you're suggesting that we all go and become labourers, the fact that there are a shortage of jobs at the moment kind of puts a hole in that theory.

And shouldn't we, as a country be leading the way in terms of educational achievement? The more doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers we have, the better our country is to live in.

 

[law74]

I'm guessing a YTS is like a labour based job training course e.g. electrician/plumber/joiner? (Don't slate me if I'm wrong)

I've spent my entire life so far in a classroom, or on a football pitch. I've not once even thought about, wanted too, or been given the option of doing anything other than getting a degree, and getting a professional job. If you're suggesting that we all go and become labourers, the fact that there are a shortage of jobs at the moment kind of puts a hole in that theory.

And shouldn't we, as a country be leading the way in terms of educational achievement? The more doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers we have, the better our country is to live in.

The Youth Training Scheme, the Youth Training Programme and Jobskills were government funded courses initially over the first year or two (or three depending on trade), where your working week was split between on the job training and classroom training, meaning that as long as your placement was a decent employer, you finished your trade training (or came out of your time) as a fully qualified tradesman (or woman).
as for "The more doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers we have, the better our country is to live in." well, no, we do not need that many doctors, we do not need tha many nurses, we do not need that many teachers nor indeed scientists. What we need are GOOD Doctors (and a reasonable percentage in the NHS for the population, and a decent percentage to specialise in varying forms of ailments, we need GOOD nurses for our hospitals, OAP's homes, Institutions (like jails, YOC's, mentaly unstable hospitals etc), we need good teachers and enough good teachers for the amount of children of school age (and for adult learning), but we also need people to fix our cars, install electric showers, solar panels, central heating, fix central heating, fix burst water mains, re-install power after storms, drive trains, drive buses, sell tickets for the buses and trains (& footbal clubs) build houses etc etc. Most of if not all of these jobs do not require spending 3 or 4 years at a university, and if this is not addressed then the spark will cost more per hour than the open heart consultant, and that is wrong.
P.S. I am still totally against the tuition fees.

 

[waterloo blue]

My mates wife is a nursing director at a major teaching hospital in Sydney,she was telling me that the majority of new nurses are from the UK and Ireland,as the NHS is fully staffed and therefore has no jobs to offer them.
They are readily accepted into the hospital system in Australia and many then decide to emigrate,they then by-pass the loan system presumably,as I can't see the goverment chasing them up out here.
This could apply to doctors,physios etc.,these are the most expensive degrees to take yet ,Australia,US,Canada are the main beneficiaries,while the UK tax payers are footing the bill.

 

[kinkysleftfoot]

why not just scrap a lot of the daft courses that some people do........then spend the savings on proper stuff?

I have so many graduates applying for jobs as sales staff after doing a course just for the sake of doing one.........wasted time!<br /><br />-- Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:08 am --<br /><br />

I graduated Uni last year and it was my age group (starting Uni in 2006) that saw fees rise from £1,200 a year up to £3,070 a year and boy did that get my goat!

I just cannot see how anybody is going to be able to afford this second rise. If anything because of the lack of jobs, we should be encouraging people to go to Uni and thus reducing the figures of unemployment, but instead we do the opposite? Jack up Uni prices so every Tom, Dick and Harry will be applying for every single job. Idiocy.

I don't buy into all this rich looking after the rich rhetoric coz everyone takes out a loan anyway, but when these students do eventually graduate a nd get into work the repayments will last for many a long year

part time bar job will bring you 7k a year!!!

 

[Halfpenny]

Well, there we have it: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11519642" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11519642</a>

Wankers.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The problem with this argument is the assumption that a 16-18yr old is incapable of doing anything unless he/she goes to uni. This is nonsense. The majority of school leavers years ago did'nt go and I know of plenty who have done extremely well after starting at the foot of the ladder. It is now entrenched in the psyche of youngsters that they 'must' go to uni even though swathes of them will achieve nothing worthwhile.
These people do not need, or are incapable of benefitting from yet more years of academic training and will gain far more experience of the real world in a job.(The lack of jobs is another argument).
I repeat, the sad thing now is kids from poor backgrounds who are academically brilliant and deserve support are suffering from a lunatic policy that has levelled the abilities of everyone.

Swathes of them may achieve nothing worthwhile, but many many more will achieve something.

The problem with this argument is the assumption that a 16-18yr old is incapable of doing anything unless he/she goes to uni. This is nonsense. The majority of school leavers years ago did'nt go and I know of plenty who have done extremely well after starting at the foot of the ladder. It is now entrenched in the psyche of youngsters that they 'must' go to uni even though swathes of them will achieve nothing worthwhile.
These people do not need, or are incapable of benefitting from yet more years of academic training and will gain far more experience of the real world in a job.(The lack of jobs is another argument).
I repeat, the sad thing now is kids from poor backgrounds who are academically brilliant and deserve support are suffering from a lunatic policy that has levelled the abilities of everyone.

Exactly, you say years ago. Look at how difficult it is now for many graduates with good degrees to get a job. How difficult is it going to be for me to get a job in say, 20 or 30 years time if I don't have a degree?

Strongly disagree with the first part of that. I left school at 16, went ona YTS (anyone else remember them?) course for 2 years. Worked bloody hard over the following 10 years to build my career, had a number of promotions. OK I wasn't a multimillionaire tycoon but we had a comfortable life. It can be done if you are prepared to work.

I'm guessing a YTS is like a labour based job training course e.g. electrician/plumber/joiner? (Don't slate me if I'm wrong)

I've spent my entire life so far in a classroom, or on a football pitch. I've not once even thought about, wanted too, or been given the option of doing anything other than getting a degree, and getting a professional job. If you're suggesting that we all go and become labourers, the fact that there are a shortage of jobs at the moment kind of puts a hole in that theory.

And shouldn't we, as a country be leading the way in terms of educational achievement? The more doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers we have, the better our country is to live in.

You say some will achieve something and no doubt this is true but you are missing the point. Nobody is suggesting you should not go to uni.If you have the ability, like I said, you should be given a grant which will alleviate the hardship. To expand the system to include kids who clearly are not suitable is why we are experiencing the current problems. It is not the kids fault. This is why a policy of attempting to direct half our children into universities is ludicrous, resulting in disillusionment and frustration.

 

[Nervous Nedum]

I'm guessing a YTS is like a labour based job training course e.g. electrician/plumber/joiner? (Don't slate me if I'm wrong)

I've spent my entire life so far in a classroom, or on a football pitch. I've not once even thought about, wanted too, or been given the option of doing anything other than getting a degree, and getting a professional job. If you're suggesting that we all go and become labourers, the fact that there are a shortage of jobs at the moment kind of puts a hole in that theory.

And shouldn't we, as a country be leading the way in terms of educational achievement? The more doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers we have, the better our country is to live in.

The Youth Training Scheme, the Youth Training Programme and Jobskills were government funded courses initially over the first year or two (or three depending on trade), where your working week was split between on the job training and classroom training, meaning that as long as your placement was a decent employer, you finished your trade training (or came out of your time) as a fully qualified tradesman (or woman).
as for "The more doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers we have, the better our country is to live in." well, no, we do not need that many doctors, we do not need tha many nurses, we do not need that many teachers nor indeed scientists. What we need are GOOD Doctors (and a reasonable percentage in the NHS for the population, and a decent percentage to specialise in varying forms of ailments, we need GOOD nurses for our hospitals, OAP's homes, Institutions (like jails, YOC's, mentaly unstable hospitals etc), we need good teachers and enough good teachers for the amount of children of school age (and for adult learning), but we also need people to fix our cars, install electric showers, solar panels, central heating, fix central heating, fix burst water mains, re-install power after storms, drive trains, drive buses, sell tickets for the buses and trains (& footbal clubs) build houses etc etc. Most of if not all of these jobs do not require spending 3 or 4 years at a university, and if this is not addressed then the spark will cost more per hour than the open heart consultant, and that is wrong.
P.S. I am still totally against the tuition fees.

after working this hard to get a good education, there's no way I'm going to drive a bus for a living. I want to teach English as a foreign language, and although its possible to get a good career without the strength of a degree behind you, its getting harder.

and what sort of incentive is that for kids in school? work hard, do homework, pass exams, and you get a boring, repetitive, dead end job because someone has to do it.

 

[Balti]

This is wrong and should be thrown out. Scrap Trident instead. Then slim down the university system and make it the place for the brightest again in the most academic subjects rather than for everyone and everything. If this goes through then one day we'll be made to pay for all education.

Those blaming this on the tories should remind themselves that the tories have not been in power for the previous three terms and it was the labour party that introduced top-up fees in the first place even though their manifesto stated it would not happen. Typical lying new labour bastards.

 

[kronkonite]

agreed the classics are a load of shit and oxford and cambridge should close