UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Dirty Harry]

I may be miles off with this but I think this all dates back to the grubby deal struck between UEFA and Qatar re the Qatar WC bid. Sarkozy and Platini were up to their necks in it, PSG were on the table and backhanders and bribes were awash. PSG and Qatar certainly have something on UEFA and Qatar certainly have an agenda against ADUG. I hope the UAE security services and Mossad have done their jobs ; )

Tbh I've no idea mate, but as I've said all along, part of our defence should be UEFA setting precedents, it has a HUGE (even MASSIVE) bearing in these kinds of settings.

 

[BillyShears]

I wouldn't be surprised if our smoking gun had the potential to blow open the scandal of corruption at the highest levels of football worldwide.

Sadly, I think that there's a lot of wild optimism in this type of thinking. I'm not confident of anything beyond that fact I have very little confidence in Soriano to navigate this situation.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

In answer to those who say that talk of a deal with Ceferin is nonsense I would make several points. Such talk is based on no firm evidence but that is true of every theory on what will result from CAS because we don't know anything about the evidence apart from PB belief that UEFA's is wafer thin. So I don't claim that it is anything more than speculation, it may be well wide of the mark and I would not claim that the odds favour it. But what it does do is to take into account, and offer an explanation for, certain developments that are ignored by other theories.

Those of the opinion that City will be banned for two years seem to base their opinion on a view that the G 14 are in such control of affairs and are so powerful, while City are a reactive pushover, that nothing can resist them. Those who believe that the ban will be reduced to one year also seem to believe that this will be the result of a cunning G 14 plan which manoeuvres CAS into a position where they have no alternative. I point out that we know of no evidence at all for either of these views. They are based on a view of the relative power of the adversaries and they identify the G 14 with UEFA.

I accept that Ceferin does not want to see City exonerated at CAS because this would mean that UEFA would be humiliated. I do not accept that UEFA and G 14 have much in the way of community of interest, and PB has torn to shreds on several occasions the view that Ceferin and G 14 see eye to eye. Sorriano's reference to our friends in UEFA, which was an echo of Khaldoon's remark in 2014, was met by Ceferin's remarks that he still saw City as a valued member of UEFA and spoke of us as "their (UEFA's) club. We have been told that he tried to broker a deal even before the AC announced its decision but that City were not receptive, and he has also stressed that he was not involved in the process which led to the imposition of the ban. More recently he has talked of the need to reform and improve FFP in ways much more to City's liking.

If we ask why his attitude might be much less confrontational and more open to compromise and concession we don't have to look too far. Even if City don't have evidence of pressure from some elements in UEFA on the IC and AC, we ca n accept that Ceferin may not want to see a UEFA victory at CAS any more than a City one. The G 14 have been a thorn in UEFA's side for at least a generation and a victory at CAS would strengthen their hold considerably. We have an inkling of the direction they would want to take in the blueprint for the future Agne he pandemic. United already in difficulty, Spur struggling to pay off the cost of their stadium and all clubs struggling with the problem of no revenue and little prospect of anything like normal in the immediate future. I find no difficulty in seeing that Ceferin sees any clear outcome at CAS as a defeat for him and "UEFA". I don't think the G 14 will compromise - they're more than happy to fight City to the last drop of UEFA's blood - but City might, depending on what's on offer.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

There's a part of me that wonders whether we do indeed have evidence to the fact, it seems easy enough to hack people, we found out about the Arsenal letter involving the other clubs, so we have "friends" out there, I'm sure we have our own little tricks up our sleeve, but what would be funny, is if the evidence UEFA are bringing to the table, which seems to be from the hacked emails, mostly or in its entirety, and it seems they're being allowed to submit it, imagine if we'd gathered evidence from those emails ourselves in which we could show the process was anything but independant, and UEFA's fingerprints (and others) were all over it, I'd pay good money to watch that one.

Getting a bit deep now I know, but what if we have our own hacked emails and will use the precedent of "you allowed theirs so here's ours". The press couldn't complain as they have been all too keen to validate the original hacked emails so if we produce our own, seperate set, saying god knows what about various G14 members it could be epic..

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

You are forgetting that Cas is an arbitration service under Swiss law whereas a criminal prosecution would be in an English court with trial standards. No chance that CAS verdict will result in prosecution at home.

OK, I'll try it this way.
If the CAS find we have a case to answer and uphold the ban, effectively that investigation by senior judges finds that the books were cooked and implies breaches of the Companies Act. However they are not empowered to take action under that Act so will do nothing other than submit their findings to the two parties. City and UEFA. They may issue some brief of an overview of the proceedings with the outcome in their reports.

It has already been stated that the Premier League have been investigating the same allegations made by Dr Spiegel and codified by UEFAs charges into the submission of incorrect accounts. So the first question is, if UEFA uphold the ban and fine in any combination do you think the Premier League will not investigate further?

Do not kid yourself if we get found to have done what is alleged do you believe we will get an easy ride from the British press and the rest of the hateful eight etc? There will be a huge demand for exemplary action. I fully expect a demand for points taken away and redistribution of League Titles etc to be openly banded about as punishment or perhaps you think they'll take it easy on us? I suspect not.

It naturally follows if that happens that such a huge case in the UK indicating we have breached the Companies Act will alert both the Police and CPS. There may well be such a referral to them from the Premier League or from hundreds of "well intentioned" private citizens or other aggrieved football clubs or members of the press due to their outrage at such blatant disregard for the law. Do you not naturally see where it goes? If the general public are seemingly outraged the Police will feel compelled to act under the "public interest" elements of the law.

I make these comments not out of any wish for this to pass but over 25 years experience of legal process and because some blues are quite glib about "Accepting a 1 year ban" and that acceptance clearly indicates a tacit submission of guilt.

Does anyone think the powers that be will be allowed to sweep this under the carpet should the CAS outcome not be favourable? Do you not think Steven Gerrard (who's a keen observer of the outcome) et al will sit back and do nothing along with Liverpool FC who are likely to whip up an absolute storm in their indignation?

Perhaps they'll just let us off!

So when you say there's "No chance" this will lead to criminal charges at home perhaps I'll politely disagree.

Of course it's all speculation at this stage and I hope we have sufficient evidence to exonerate the club completely and none of this will mean a thing.

 

[Manchester1894]

I'll put this out there now. I'm not enamoured with football at the moment. How it can decide to return in 3 weeks whilst we cannot reach out to family members is completely ridiculous. I've cancelled Sky and BT's sports offerings as a result. To those fans that have never missed a game and spent thousands home and away I also feel for you. If CAS reject our hearing, it's a hard pill to swallow and the outlook for me as a City fan would be quite bleak. Silva going, Sane wanting out. Assets like KDB/Sterling at risk of wanting away. An ageing Aguero. That's not being pessemistic, it's a likely scenario. I think that would a setback that woud put us back quite a bit and in need of a Monaco style rebuild where we promote youngsters like Foden and Garcia and try to get other youngsters like Doyle integrated properly.

The reality is Liverpool will probably romp a few more titles. Chelsea might overtake us. United will probably add a few more signings to get closer. By the time we can get back to normal, crowds will be back at football and peoples love for football might grow after a lot of dismay. Pep will have left by then, and the future is less sure of winning titles etc. But the PL might be more competitve than ever in say 4 years time.

IF we are guilty, then as much as I like Khaldoon - he's going to have to walk. He can get our trust with nice little videos where he is being bullish and showing bravado, but if their incompetence robs us of our game at a time when they are putting match day prices up every year, someone should be held accountable.

 

[Ric]

Sadly, I think that there's a lot of wild optimism in this type of thinking. I'm not confident of anything beyond that fact I have very little confidence in Soriano to navigate this situation.

Yeah, I'm pretty sceptical about this "smoking gun" stuff too. How come you don't have any confidence in Soriano though?

 

[mosssideblue]

I'll put this out there now. I'm not enamoured with football at the moment. How it can decide to return in 3 weeks whilst we cannot reach out to family members is completely ridiculous. I've cancelled Sky and BT's sports offerings as a result. To those fans that have never missed a game and spent thousands home and away I also feel for you. If CAS reject our hearing, it's a hard pill to swallow and the outlook for me as a City fan would be quite bleak. Silva going, Sane wanting out. Assets like KDB/Sterling at risk of wanting away. An ageing Aguero. That's not being pessemistic, it's a likely scenario. I think that would a setback that woud put us back quite a bit and in need of a Monaco style rebuild where we promote youngsters like Foden and Garcia and try to get other youngsters like Doyle integrated properly.

The reality is Liverpool will probably romp a few more titles. Chelsea might overtake us. United will probably add a few more signings to get closer. By the time we can get back to normal, crowds will be back at football and peoples love for football might grow after a lot of dismay. Pep will have left by then, and the future is less sure of winning titles etc. But the PL might be more competitve than ever in say 4 years time.

IF we are guilty, then as much as I like Khaldoon - he's going to have to walk. He can get our trust with nice little videos where he is being bullish and showing bravado, but if their incompetence robs us of our game at a time when they are putting match day prices up every year, someone should be held accountable.

Not sure your last para is sound. We could be totally innocent but still found guilty by those judging us. Money creates power and influence, influence which might be against us

 

[Fred_Quimby]

In answer to those who say that talk of a deal with Ceferin is nonsense I would make several points. Such talk is based on no firm evidence but that is true of every theory on what will result from CAS because we don't know anything about the evidence apart from PB belief that UEFA's is wafer thin. So I don't claim that it is anything more than speculation, it may be well wide of the mark and I would not claim that the odds favour it. But what it does do is to take into account, and offer an explanation for, certain developments that are ignored by other theories.

Those of the opinion that City will be banned for two years seem to base their opinion on a view that the G 14 are in such control of affairs and are so powerful, while City are a reactive pushover, that nothing can resist them. Those who believe that the ban will be reduced to one year also seem to believe that this will be the result of a cunning G 14 plan which manoeuvres CAS into a position where they have no alternative. I point out that we know of no evidence at all for either of these views. They are based on a view of the relative power of the adversaries and they identify the G 14 with UEFA.

I accept that Ceferin does not want to see City exonerated at CAS because this would mean that UEFA would be humiliated. I do not accept that UEFA and G 14 have much in the way of community of interest, and PB has torn to shreds on several occasions the view that Ceferin and G 14 see eye to eye. Sorriano's reference to our friends in UEFA, which was an echo of Khaldoon's remark in 2014, was met by Ceferin's remarks that he still saw City as a valued member of UEFA and spoke of us as "their (UEFA's) club. We have been told that he tried to broker a deal even before the AC announced its decision but that City were not receptive, and he has also stressed that he was not involved in the process which led to the imposition of the ban. More recently he has talked of the need to reform and improve FFP in ways much more to City's liking.

If we ask why his attitude might be much less confrontational and more open to compromise and concession we don't have to look too far. Even if City don't have evidence of pressure from some elements in UEFA on the IC and AC, we ca n accept that Ceferin may not want to see a UEFA victory at CAS any more than a City one. The G 14 have been a thorn in UEFA's side for at least a generation and a victory at CAS would strengthen their hold considerably. We have an inkling of the direction they would want to take in the blueprint for the future Agne he pandemic. United already in difficulty, Spur struggling to pay off the cost of their stadium and all clubs struggling with the problem of no revenue and little prospect of anything like normal in the immediate future. I find no difficulty in seeing that Ceferin sees any clear outcome at CAS as a defeat for him and "UEFA". I don't think the G 14 will compromise - they're more than happy to fight City to the last drop of UEFA's blood - but City might, depending on what's on offer.

So Ceferin could really do with losing at CAS to enable a root and branch culling of all the G14 elements at UEFA? Up to and including FFP as this will hold back many clubs (including G14) in the present climate.

 

[SilvaisSkyBlue]

OK, I'll try it this way.
If the CAS find we have a case to answer and uphold the ban, effectively that investigation by senior judges finds that the books were cooked and implies breaches of the Companies Act. However they are not empowered to take action under that Act so will do nothing other than submit their findings to the two parties. City and UEFA. They may issue some brief of an overview of the proceedings with the outcome in their reports.

It has already been stated that the Premier League have been investigating the same allegations made by Dr Spiegel and codified by UEFAs charges into the submission of incorrect accounts. So the first question is, if UEFA uphold the ban and fine in any combination do you think the Premier League will not investigate further?

Do not kid yourself if we get found to have done what is alleged do you believe we will get an easy ride from the British press and the rest of the hateful eight etc? There will be a huge demand for exemplary action. I fully expect a demand for points taken away and redistribution of League Titles etc to be openly banded about as punishment or perhaps you think they'll take it easy on us? I suspect not.

It naturally follows if that happens that such a huge case in the UK indicating we have breached the Companies Act will alert both the Police and CPS. There may well be such a referral to them from the Premier League or from hundreds of "well intentioned" private citizens or other aggrieved football clubs or members of the press due to their outrage at such blatant disregard for the law. Do you not naturally see where it goes? If the general public are seemingly outraged the Police will feel compelled to act under the "public interest" elements of the law.

I make these comments not out of any wish for this to pass but over 25 years experience of legal process and because some blues are quite glib about "Accepting a 1 year ban" and that acceptance clearly indicates a tacit submission of guilt.

Does anyone think the powers that be will be allowed to sweep this under the carpet should the CAS outcome not be favourable? Do you not think Steven Gerrard (who's a keen observer of the outcome) et al will sit back and do nothing along with Liverpool FC who are likely to whip up an absolute storm in their indignation?

Perhaps they'll just let us off!

So when you say there's "No chance" this will lead to criminal charges at home perhaps I'll politely disagree.

Of course it's all speculation at this stage and I hope we have sufficient evidence to exonerate the club completely and none of this will mean a thing.

Two thousand nine hundred and seventy three pages, and this is the biggest pile of shìt to date, set a pretty high bar for having fùck all idea what is going on.

The bit about Gerrard is watching, ffs, we are doomed.