UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  • Two-year ban upheld

    Votes: 197 13.1%
  • Ban reduced to one year

    Votes: 422 28.2%
  • Ban overturned and City exonerated

    Votes: 815 54.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 65 4.3%

  • Total voters
    1,499
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This morning I said that I HOPE, not know, think or even expect that part of City's defence would be a full frontal assault on FFP. Now, up to this point we have no irrefutable evidence as to what the club's attitude to FFP is and we can argue until we're sky blue in the face about it. What also appears to be the case is that certain clubs supported the introduction of FFP primarily, it seems, so that other clubs could not benefit from owner investment to outspend them at a time when they needed to cut back, largely due to the effects of the financial crisis. It appears that City were one of the clubs targeted directly and in 2014 were sanctioned despite insisting they were responsible for no wrong doing. City took the "pinch" because they considered the interests of other groups involvd, such as sponsors, though City insisted on the superiority of its high investment model over the protectionist UEFA model. It appears the 2014 settlement has not settled much at all and City find themselves targeted again. The club may well feel that FFP is intended to be a permanent thorn in its side.

What you don't appear to consider at all is that attitudes change and develop as circumstances change and develop. I find it difficult to believe that the club's attitude to FFP will not at least have hardened as a result of recent developments. I hope that City's legal team has ripped the case for FFP to shreds in CAS - and I think it more than possible such an attack was part of our defence - and that CAS could even question its legality in the judgement but I don't expect this. If City's appeal is upheld - and I am confident it will be - I think the club will believe this to be the last time FFP is a concern. They will consider a crusade against FFPR to be other clubs good cause. This is not because of any love for the regulations. You have never heard any official at City express the kind of protectionist rubbish that you put forward: yours is the logic of Old Trafford, the Allianz and elsewhere. City are creating a football group which requires heavy investment, imagination, planning, vision and COMPETITION. If City can do that without recourse to legal action against FFP they will, but if not ... And a football group worth $5 billion does have unlimited funds for litigation, but you make progress quicker if it can be avoided.

The real problem arises if the CAS decision goes in UEFA's favour. The consequences may well be disastrous and felt for a long time, throughout the group. It is hard to see the Sheikh and his advisers accepting defeat with a whimper. Accepting that their venture was ruined by rules which defy sense, reason and the most superficial analysis and which appear to permit what the law clearly prohibits. What will your alternative be then? Will you still see FFP as City's essential safeguard from the Saudis and the Chinese?
I agree with this. FFP does not exist in any other commercial setting and nor should it. And this is not about City then being able to outspend and monopolise all trophies forever - we all know that would kill the competetive goose. It seems to me that the club hierarchy has an effective and efficient business model involving targeted and controlled investment, and a global strategy promotinģ organic growth. They do not, and do not seek, to just throw shedloads of money at every marquee player on the planet.
 
We need a thread about growing up in the 60's and 70's.......Penny arrow bars, fruit salads, clackers, chopper bikes, penny round collars, Robinson Crusoe and Banana Splits on the telly....I'll let others go on now!
Cream soda, trolley buses, flags of the world bubblegum cards (Venezuela was the one you couldn't get), losing 4-0 at home to Grimsby....
 
Good man - loads of runts on this forum - long may it always be that City are rooted in white dog shit, that black tar which used to bubble up in the streets when it got hot and back entries for playing rallivo and kick-can!!

*Edits - plus the rag and bone man and that person who used to leave bottles of dandelion and burdock and limeade and lemonade on your doorstep like the milkman.

Used to get 10p a bottle returning them.

Life was so simple then...

HaHa

Always City or Man City for me as well.

You've taken me back with the bottle of pop reference. My Saturday job as a kid was on the Corona waggons from a depot in Stretford in the early 70's. Best part of the day was the chippy dinner with barm. Always barm.
 
Thanks projectdriver, that's an opinion I respect (greatly) and is clearly thought out without ascribing motives which seem more obviously located in Old Trafford that the Etihad and more common to a very protectionist school to those at our club.

If our appeal is not upheld, though, FFP may well become a very serious and long lasting obstacle to the club's/group's plans and not simply a way of avoiding a two year CL ban. Nor does it seem that the period since the introduction of FFP is a great obstacle. It is hard to argue that City accepted the regulations, since we were never consulted. I believe it's hard to identify clubs which were. City certainly tried to conform to them but this was because companies will try to avoid bitter, legal disputes if they can and UEFA would almost certainly have banned the club from CL at least until the matter had been decided. City's case would be that we had tried to manage our business within the framework of the rules but that the rules had been used to frustrate our efforts. The rules are anti competitive, apply at all times to all clubs and thus judgement is of wider significance than just to City.

We don't need to have been involved in their creation. By accepting the invitation to play in tournaments governed by UEFA and its rules, I think we have a tough position arguing we haven't acquiesced by our conduct. And that is even if there is merit in challenging it. It seems obvious to me that no club has ever had a very strong legal opinion that it would likely win if it challenged the legality. I'm sure the case is "arguable" but thats not the same.

I take your point that if we are banned we may well need FFP to be relaxed to re-compete but all bets are off anyway because football is in financial crisis now. Likewise, we will legitimately be able to support some very large sponsorship contracts even with related parties when tested for market rate.
 
If the case had gone well for Uefa I would have expected some leaks last night or this morning. So far the silence is deafening.
We have 3 professional highly regarded lawyers sitting on the case, each side has their own team of professionals it’s not in their nature to leak Also especially after CAS 1 revolves around City’s complaint about the fact that a confidential process was full of leaks all allegedly from UEFA run and their failed politician and chief investigator a man with an agenda Remember also that UEFA is populated with club and ex club officials who are our main rivals This is why City said that they were looking forward to the independent CAS So I doubt there will be any leaks and we will be told soon when the verdict will be publish in early July
 
Stefan talked in the podcast about how City had until Saturday night to reach a settlement with UEFA. The fact they didn't is a decision that would have been taken with the input of everyone in the corporate hierarchy and our legal team. We're talking about maybe 15-20 incredibly intelligent people agreeing that CAS is a risk worth taking. There is an assumed ultra-confidence about our position.

Ferran states in the interview that Sheikh Mansour has invested everything to the point that it has been audited numerous times. Ferran is staking his own reputation on this challenge. An adverse outcome would inflict huge damage upon his personal reputation. One of the most interesting things he does say is that UEFA put undue emphasis on the emails. I genuinely do start to think that UEFA's case file is essentially just a copy of Der Spiegel. The hack uncovered millions of pages of information but the trail went dry after Pearce's email to Chumillas. The more I think about it, the more I think UEFA have nothing on us that isn't already in the public domain. I'm increasingly confident.

Good post. Obviously, none of us know if UEFA have uncovered something else on us in the meantime (which they might) but the investigation was opened as a direct result of the e-mails in the Der Spiegel articles - nothing more, nothing less. And while I’m still nervy about the outcome, it does feel like UEFA have been over-reliant on the e-mails and in their opinion they trump any counter-evidence we may have provided.
 
Good man - loads of runts on this forum - long may it always be that City are rooted in white dog shit, that black tar which used to bubble up in the streets when it got hot and back entries for playing rallivo and kick-can!!

*Edits - plus the rag and bone man and that person who used to leave bottles of dandelion and burdock and limeade and lemonade on your doorstep like the milkman.

Used to get 10p a bottle returning them.

Life was so simple then...

Them were the days : )
 
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