UK government to block Scottish gender bill - first time a devolved government has been blocked from passing a law.

[The perfect fumble]

So I'm right, no vote at Westminster, sounds fair.

It was brought to a head because the SNP attempted to unilaterally change the terms of reference of existing UK wide legislation and on the back of that pass new legislation beyond its legislative powers.

New legislation that would have implications for every part of the United kingdom.

Something Scotland cannot do under the Scotland Act 1998

This is not in dispute, the only question was whether the Scottish Secretary would use section 35 to stop it.

No one, least of all Sturgeon expected nor wanted a Westminster vote.

And how do we know this?

Because the SNP was free to call for a debate in Westminster, but it didn't, and neither did Labour, the Greens, or the Lib Dems for that matter.

Why was that you reckon?

Because Sturgeon knew that the bill lay outside the purview of Holyrood, she has her lawyers too, they'll have told her much the same as Sunak's lawyers told him. Let me repeat this, Sturgeon knew what she was doing lay outside the legislative scope of the Scottish Parliament, but she wanted it passed there regardless, not Westminster, at Holyrood, then she could kick back and watch Westminster squirm.

But it didn't work out that way.

Sturgeon tweeted the following after the Scottish Secretary used Section 35.

“This is a full-frontal attack on our democratically elected Scottish parliament and it’s ability to make its own decisions on devolved matters. @scotgov will defend the legislation and stand up for Scotland’s parliament. If this Westminster veto succeeds, it will be first of many.”

I don't know about you, but it doesn't strike me that Nicola's first concern in this debacle was trans rights.

Does that sound fair now? Or are you still up for a bit of whataboutery?

 

[blueparrot]

It was brought to a head because the SNP attempted to unilaterally change the terms of reference of existing UK wide legislation.

Legislation that covers every part of the United kingdom.

Something Scotland cannot do under the Scotland Act 1998

This is not in dispute, the only question was whether the Scottish Secretary would use section 35.

No one, least of all Sturgeon expected nor wanted a Westminster vote.

And how do we know this?

Because the SNP was free to call for a debate in Westminster, but it didn't, and neither did Labour, the Greens, or the Lib Dems.

Why was that you reckon?

Because Sturgeon knew that the bill lay outside the purview of Holyrood, she has her lawyers too, they'll have told her much the same as Sunak's lawyers told him. Let me repeat this, Sturgeon knew what she was doing lay outside the legislative scope of the Scottish Parliament, but she wanted it passed there regardless, not Westminster, at Holyrood, then she could kick back and watch Westminster squirm.

But it didn't work out that way.

Sturgeon tweeted the following after the Scottish Secretary used Section 35.

“This is a full-frontal attack on our democratically elected Scottish parliament and it’s ability to make its own decisions on devolved matters. @scotgov will defend the legislation and stand up for Scotland’s parliament. If this Westminster veto succeeds, it will be first of many.”

I don't know about you, but it doesn't strike me that Nicola's first concern in this debacle was trans rights.

Does that sound fair now? Or are you still up for a bit of whataboutery?

No it doesn't and yes I am.

 

[The perfect fumble]

No it doesn't and yes I am.

I compliment you on your....Err?...

Brevity.

 

[metalblue]

Correct ,because I'd guess most people are like me and see a strong argument on both sides can't decide. So leave it to those that are affected by it to have an opinion, not stick my nose into a topic I don't need to have a strong opinion on, because what's it to me ?

You don’t have daughters or a wife or a mother then? You’re perfectly happy with a bloke who says his a woman to pitch up in their changing rooms at the local pool?

Medical diagnosis is the only way the genuine are supported and the loons are weeded out. The issue is how long that takes currently. It’s chronically underfunded.

 

[metalblue]

There's nothing unreasonable or controversial about what she said today. It's possible to believe that some people have gender dysphoria and that others are simply confused or acting out for an ulterior motivation.

The sexual and violent offenders (with facial tattoos) and habits of smearing faeces are not transgender and they ought to be housed in a secure facilities to care for their severe mental health issues or housed in sex offenders wings on the male prison estate.

Here's a case that demonstrates that point perfectly. An overindulged person with Aspergers syndrome raised by older parents who were compulsive horders, he then developed an unhealthy "fame" on the internet for his strange behaviour online and in person.

Chris Chan interrupts incest rape hearing to say she's famous

Christine Chandler, 39, known as Chris Chan on YouTube, stomped her feet and demanded to be taken home during a hearing at the Green County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court in Virginia.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Defacing a cardboard cutout in a video-game store because it had the wrong coloured arms and then pepper spraying a member of staff.

What your saying, actually in line with Sturgeon, is I can self determine my gender unless someone else decides for me. What an utterly ludicrous policy that is, far worse than the current one.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

A tough week or two for sturgeon during which she will have learned a lot about the difference between putting forward legislation as a party of protest, vs a party of govt. She's been interviewed by several people that have clearly given more thought to the detail of the proposed gender bill than either her or her party have. A bunch of incompetent fannies - reputations saved only by the fact the Westminster fannies are corrupt as well as crap

 

[blueparrot]

You don’t have daughters or a wife or a mother then? You’re perfectly happy with a bloke who says his a woman to pitch up in their changing rooms at the local pool?

Medical diagnosis is the only way the genuine are supported and the loons are weeded out. The issue is how long that takes currently. It’s chronically underfunded.

Well my local pool has mixed changing rooms anyway as do many so that wouldn’t matter. I know they go in changing rooms in shops , but don’t think any changing room in any shop they have ever been in has asked for proof of their or anyones sex.
The fact neither of them are in the slightest bit bothered about the Scottish gender laws tells me I probably don’t need to be too worried on their behalf either. If either were concerned about it then maybe my view would be slightly different, but they aren’t and no woman I’ve heard talk about it are too concerned either.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What your saying, actually in line with Sturgeon, is I can self determine my gender unless someone else decides for me. What an utterly ludicrous policy that is, far worse than the current one.

You still need to get the certificate, self-id doesn't mean you don't need to get your gender identity approved first. The Scottish government believe they will grant 300 certificates per annum compared to the 30 under old regime.

If you are sex offender with a history of voyeurism and trespassing in women's spaces then they could quite rightly turn around and reject the request. Or even if it was approved as they believed you to be genuinely suffering from dysphoria, risk assessments would necessitate that you were not imprisoned with female inmates.

 

[mackenzie]

Well my local pool has mixed changing rooms anyway as do many so that wouldn’t matter. I know they go in changing rooms in shops , but don’t think any changing room in any shop they have ever been in has asked for proof of their or anyones sex.
The fact neither of them are in the slightest bit bothered about the Scottish gender laws tells me I probably don’t need to be too worried on their behalf either. If either were concerned about it then maybe my view would be slightly different, but they aren’t and no woman I’ve heard talk about it are too concerned either.

I'm concerned and I'm a woman

 

[blueparrot]

I'm concerned and I'm a woman

Your perfectly entitled to be, and your entitled to argue your case. My argument is not the for or against the Scottish gender bill , those with any issues are entitled to argue against it.
My issue is a democratic decision taken in the Scottish parliament being overturned with no vote in parliament on the whim of of a prime minister deciding for himself if he agrees with the bill or doesn’t and having the authority to block it.