UK out of EU

OnlyOneUweRosler said:
The UK must leave the EU. We are told the country has no money, but we give BILLIONS to the EU without question every year. It uses this money to bung back handers to politicians and special interest groups like farmers. The EU forced us to give prisoners the vote, and also stops us deporting foreign criminals
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First off, British politicians are doing well with their backhanders without the need for the EU. Too many people have this black and white view, that Britain = good, and the EU = bad.

Second, the EU didn't force to give the prisoners the vote, or stop deporting foreign criminals. You are thinking of the European Court of Human Rights, which many tabloid readers often confuse with the EU. Plus in any case the ECHR didn't force anyone to give prisoners the vote, or stops the deporting of foreign criminals as a general rule.

The 'catgate' rubbish witch the Tories brought up, was a ruling a British judge made on British deportation and boarder control rules and had nothing to do with human rights.
 
If Cameron flatly refuses to hold a referendum on the matter despite MPs wishing for it, he could potentially go down as one of the most hated PM's that has been.

The left hate him because his policies don't fit their ideals, and the right hate him because he's a Centre-Leftist in a Centre-Right party.

He is essentially being undemocratic by not allowing people the right to have a vote on the EU, and he certainly isn't a Tory. He would actually fit the category that suited New Labour; a rich boy with petty socialist dreams.
 
leithblue said:
It's naive to suggest that removing ourselves from the EU would certainly not have an adverse effect on our ability to trade with either the rest of Europe, or the rest of the world. The UK is not powerful enough on its own, it needs to be within a single trading bloc to be able to go forward. We can only influence that trading bloc by being at the centre of it.

EFTA is not a fall-back option when you move away from the EU, it is a stepping stone to EU Membership. Like above, Norway and Switzerland get away with it, but the chances are they will be faced with a stark choice at some point in the next 20 years about EU membership on an all-or-nothing basis.

Take something like ADD, the EU has the buying power to impose ADD on specific products, the UK would be ignored. Would China, US, any other country particularly care if only the UK sought to protect its national market by restricting imports and imposing tariffs? Tariffs only have an effect when they make the exporter take notice, they protect local jobs. Look at hi-tech manufacturing, which is something we can still do, our industry is sheltered by the EU making it difficult for the Far East to flood the market.

I'm not a happy clapper europhile, the EU is not a perfect institution and reform is clearly needed, yet I believe that it is the best option for the UK. But we are not clever enough to use the advantage we have at an EU level yet. With France and Germany, the UK is one of the "go-to" nations in EU decision making given our presence in Brussels and size of our economy. But we get ourselves tied up in handwringing about whether we should be there in the first place rather than making our voices heard there. MSPs are too concerned with having to justify their existence than influencing policy. We don't play the game well enough. It's sad that there is a game to play, but that's the way in any environment.

Anyway, this is something that will run on and on (and on and on and on...).
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People are fucked of with the EU because the end game is a super state like the bleeding US. People, myself included didn't mind the the EEC which was about trade but we don't want all the bleeding political bullshit. Even the bloody Germans are getting sick to death of the EU and they really are at the centre of it and not on the fringes like us.
 
The main debate around EU membership is the economy.

Being part of the EU should make it easier to trade within the bloc.

However, as we are not part of the currency, so we can still change our interest rates etc.

I can understand a lot of peoples grievances when they see the UK helping to bail out other countries when we don't have the euro.

Here's a thought, if we came out of the EU, surely it would mean every time we wanted to go to Europe for a holiday we would have to apply for a visa? Much like Turkish people.
 
Challenger1978 said:
leithblue said:
It's naive to suggest that removing ourselves from the EU would certainly not have an adverse effect on our ability to trade with either the rest of Europe, or the rest of the world. The UK is not powerful enough on its own, it needs to be within a single trading bloc to be able to go forward. We can only influence that trading bloc by being at the centre of it.

EFTA is not a fall-back option when you move away from the EU, it is a stepping stone to EU Membership. Like above, Norway and Switzerland get away with it, but the chances are they will be faced with a stark choice at some point in the next 20 years about EU membership on an all-or-nothing basis.

Take something like ADD, the EU has the buying power to impose ADD on specific products, the UK would be ignored. Would China, US, any other country particularly care if only the UK sought to protect its national market by restricting imports and imposing tariffs? Tariffs only have an effect when they make the exporter take notice, they protect local jobs. Look at hi-tech manufacturing, which is something we can still do, our industry is sheltered by the EU making it difficult for the Far East to flood the market.

I'm not a happy clapper europhile, the EU is not a perfect institution and reform is clearly needed, yet I believe that it is the best option for the UK. But we are not clever enough to use the advantage we have at an EU level yet. With France and Germany, the UK is one of the "go-to" nations in EU decision making given our presence in Brussels and size of our economy. But we get ourselves tied up in handwringing about whether we should be there in the first place rather than making our voices heard there. MSPs are too concerned with having to justify their existence than influencing policy. We don't play the game well enough. It's sad that there is a game to play, but that's the way in any environment.

Anyway, this is something that will run on and on (and on and on and on...).
Click to expand...

People are fucked of with the EU because the end game is a super state like the bleeding US. People, myself included didn't mind the the EEC which was about trade but we don't want all the bleeding political bullshit. Even the bloody Germans are getting sick to death of the EU and they really are at the centre of it and not on the fringes like us.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts. It was the common market we joined the rest has been brought in by stealth. No problems whatsoever with trade but the super state can not go through.
 
Seosa said:
If Cameron flatly refuses to hold a referendum on the matter despite MPs wishing for it, he could potentially go down as one of the most hated PM's that has been.

The left hate him because his policies don't fit their ideals, and the right hate him because he's a Centre-Leftist in a Centre-Right party.

He is essentially being undemocratic by not allowing people the right to have a vote on the EU, and he certainly isn't a Tory. He would actually fit the category that suited New Labour; a rich boy with petty socialist dreams.
Click to expand...


i doubt very much that enough MPs want a referendum

Labour and Lib Dems support the EU
Even if every Tory voted against they wouldn't get a majority.
 
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