UKIP

[Bodicoteblue]

The only good thing I can see about UKIP , is that they are going to split the Tory vote , much as they are currently splitting the Tory party itself.

I think they will also split the Labour vote

In many of the most marginal seats there is only around 1 to 2 % between the winner and the runners up , so it really will take only a tiny swing either way .
As the lib/dem vote collapses as their voters take revenge on clegg for rowing in with the Tories , for whom they didn't vote but got anyway because of Clegg's desire for power ,many will head for the nearest centre left party rather than going Tory.
In the meantime UKIP will take far more Tory votes than labour ones. They occupy fairly much the same political ground ie white middle class South East suburban types who are fertile ground for that nice Mr Farage and his pint and his cigarettes down the pub.
There will be some labour voters who switch , but closer examination of Ukip's policies will soon show them that they really have very little politically in common with them , outside of an understandable concern about immigration.

 

[Rascal]

The policy is announced by Steven Woolfe MEP was

"Firstly, we believe all people from whichever country they come from should be treated the same if they wish to come to our country.

Secondly, we will not allow the British state to discriminate by religion, origin or ethnicity.

Thirdly, we believe that Europeans should receive the same treatment as non Europeans. We recognise that an appropriately qualified German doctor has the same right to apply to work in the UK as an appropriately qualified Indian Doctor.

Fourthly, we can not have a completely open door immigration policy to the whole world we need to have a selective and skills based policy that balances the need of economic growth and society.

To achieve this UKIP will adopt the Australian points based system that matches skills to the industries that need them and that can permit immigration and settlement without overcrowding.

Fifthly, within the points based system UKIP commits to bringing UK net migration down to 50,00 people a year for employment. "

Of course as my previous post pointed out all reliant on the UK leaving the EU

No mention of students

No mention of emmigration

No mention of asylum

And what happens if the economy explodes into amazing growth and we have nobody to do the jobs that are needed because of an arbitary target.

The policy sounds all well and good but it is more porous than my mamas colander

Hi Adrian

What was said about the above

Cheers

 

[Len Rum]

[/b]


I think I know the answer to this, is it because it's a wasted vote on a one trick pony that only panders to small minded xenophobes?

Agreed. Go on any UKIP/EDL forum and it's just small minded bigots blaming immigrants, Muslims and Europe for everything that's wrong in their life. The best is when they cite the Daily Mail/Express as their source for such things.

When social solidarity is all but gone, when trade unions are weakened to the point of irrelevance and job security is a thing of the past, it's no wonder people are scared to bits. Along comes a beer swilling city boy and tells them to blame it on a Polish plumber and, sadly, some do.

Agreed.
It's strange isn't it because Polish plumbers give a great service and at a competitive rate. East European immigrants generally are good workers and UK businesses are happy to employ them and recognize their valuable contribution to the economy.
The NHS obviously would collapse without migrant workers.
The middle classes (particularly in London) employ immigrant workers as nannies,child minders and domestic helpers etc.
I think immigration is fantastic and brings massive benefits to the UK economy.
Just can't see the attraction of UKIP and all their anti immigration policies.

 

[adrian99]

The policy is announced by Steven Woolfe MEP was

"Firstly, we believe all people from whichever country they come from should be treated the same if they wish to come to our country.

Secondly, we will not allow the British state to discriminate by religion, origin or ethnicity.

Thirdly, we believe that Europeans should receive the same treatment as non Europeans. We recognise that an appropriately qualified German doctor has the same right to apply to work in the UK as an appropriately qualified Indian Doctor.

Fourthly, we can not have a completely open door immigration policy to the whole world we need to have a selective and skills based policy that balances the need of economic growth and society.

To achieve this UKIP will adopt the Australian points based system that matches skills to the industries that need them and that can permit immigration and settlement without overcrowding.

Fifthly, within the points based system UKIP commits to bringing UK net migration down to 50,00 people a year for employment. "

Of course as my previous post pointed out all reliant on the UK leaving the EU

No mention of students

No mention of emmigration

No mention of asylum

And what happens if the economy explodes into amazing growth and we have nobody to do the jobs that are needed because of an arbitary target.

The policy sounds all well and good but it is more porous than my mamas colander

Hi Adrian

What was said about the above

Cheers

Conversing with you is wasted words as you made your mind up long ago, you support an irrelevant ideology that has no future. But just for shits and giggles on asylum given that we have pledged to "Abolish the provisions of the Dublin Treaty that prevents us from identifying the country of origin of illegal immigrants who come here with no identification" and to "Increase front line border staff by 2,500" and given that at conference asylum seekers requirement to seek sanctuary in the first safe country they enter was discussed it would be safe to assume there will be many fewer applications and far more deportations.

Despite your opinion I think we will find the voting public support our immigration policy.

 

[adrian99]

The only good thing I can see about UKIP , is that they are going to split the Tory vote , much as they are currently splitting the Tory party itself.

I think they will also split the Labour vote

In many of the most marginal seats there is only around 1 to 2 % between the winner and the runners up , so it really will take only a tiny swing either way .
As the lib/dem vote collapses as their voters take revenge on clegg for rowing in with the Tories , for whom they didn't vote but got anyway because of Clegg's desire for power ,many will head for the nearest centre left party rather than going Tory.
In the meantime UKIP will take far more Tory votes than labour ones. They occupy fairly much the same political ground ie white middle class South East suburban types who are fertile ground for that nice Mr Farage and his pint and his cigarettes down the pub.
There will be some labour voters who switch , but closer examination of Ukip's policies will soon show them that they really have very little politically in common with them , outside of an understandable concern about immigration.

I would have a look at this video Labour safe seats are not as safe as you may think.

<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dxwu_co-UQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dxwu_co-UQ</a>

 

[adrian99]

"UKIP, like most political parties have the economic nous of an aubergine".

There you go, arrogance, you and people of your ilk know better than the rest of us. Of course I am aware of the unfunded pension deficit but we can't keep kicking the can down the road until we are so full there is literally no room to swing a cat, the country is only so big, anyone entering must be needed and skilled. Nigel said on the Andrew Marr show this morning that some things are more important than a few pips on GDP and this is one of them, I get it, we are going to be poorer in the future, the days of continued greater wealth are over and we are going to have to work later into old age, many difficult decisions will have to be made.

hahaha, ok fair enough. I wasn't talking about you. I was referring more to the economists that use selective data to fit a political ideological viewpoint, or a campaign. But whatever, take it however you want.

As for me and my ilk. Not sure what that means. I'm not an economist, I work with a number of economists, and my view is informed by them, and you know what. Yes. they do know more than the rest of us. Thats why its their job. They are paid to know more than the rest of us.

Second part. If you saw what I read, I never said I was particularly pro whole sale immigration, I gave a list of possible eventualities that were glossed over by you completely. As for Nigel's comments. Read again the figures. Please. This is more than a few pips on GDP. Just do a quick calculation and have a look at the projected deficit between income and liabilities.

This isn't a case of us being poorer, this is a case of us (if immigration is stopped and the population remains as healthy as it is) having to pay more out in public pensions than we have as income.

As I said previously, though i get the impression it will be ignored, there are a number of solutions (in my mind). One is immigration, one is a tiny state with pensions provided by the private sector, and one is increasing birth rates, one is greater international political union.

Any other suggestions I'm welcome to listen. I know which one I think it will be, but I'm always prepared to be proven wrong. Seriously.

You are right, the age of retirement will increase, a lot more than it has already. Not that this is neccessarily a bad thing, it could be better for the economy. Lets hope employers see it this way as well.

As for economists, did you all see the financial crash coming? If you did you kept very quite about it. There are many economists with many different views but politics is more important than the opinions of one group of economists or those of self serving big businesses for that matter.

I'm not an economist, and I wasn't working when the financial crash occured. But to answer your question (about colleagues) a couple of them did yes. Which is why their company came through very unscathed.

For what its worth, if only for informed debate. There has been the suggestion that in terms of crisis counting, we are currently at 2003 again (of course there are a lot of factors that aren't the same back then) but we are not structurally robust enough to make it inconceiveable that we won't find ourselves in another crash within the next 15 years.

£5bn the cost tax credits to European migrants, £6-9 billion the cost of educating 1m children in our schools, the children of immigrants, £17.6bn the cost of free NHS treatment for the 8m immigrants living here. £10bn the cost of EU membership and £11bn the foreign aid budget. There are many things we can do to reduce spending in order to fund the state pension that today costs £80bn.

Thats all well and good. All the recent studies show migrants have a net positive impact, again, ONS is your friend. Secondly, quote that £80bn figure again, and look at the projection. Tell me this deficit can be solved by simply increasing the working age?

We both know and realise there are major issues in the future re pensions and healthcare but we in UKIP are committed to the NHS remaining free at the point of need and I would rather face up to the pensions issues sooner rather than later. Relying on immigration to fund pensions and heathcare is a ponzi scheme solution because in the end we will run out of land for houses, schools and hospitals. Mark Reckless was an economist and he seemed very happy to join us on Saturday, maybe he is not only brave and principled for leaving the tories because they broke the promises he made to his electorate and to seek reelection in a far from easy by-election but also to confront these issues now, not just kick the can down the road for the next generation to deal with.

 

[stonerblue]

Labour is the party to vote for if you are a net recipient of other peoples money in the form of benefits or wages from a state sector job.

For the tax paying working class Labour are useless, so why not give UKIP a try?

Whilst I obviously agree with you on voting UKIP, the comment "if you are a net recipient of other peoples money in the form of benefits " is based on a tory lie. The benefits bill is £220bn, of this job seekers is ONLY £5.2bn, the state pension figure is 80bn and disabled benefits cost £55bn, job seekers is a very small part of the £220bn figure, less than 5%. Housing benefit often quoted as another benefit of the unemployed is today claimed by over one million WORKING families, 20% of the total number, is this how the tories support hard working families?

That's why I support an increased minimum wage and am arguing for a higher figure for businesses that can easily afford it, the supermarkets and banks for example. Let's also not forget that EU migrants are claiming £5bn in tax credits annually, a figure equal to the total cost of jobseekers for all our unemployed.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10999434/Migrants-working-in-Britain-claim-5-billion-a-year-in-tax-credits-figures-show.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -show.html</a>

Re those working in the public sector I would worry if you are a manager administrating in the NHS, but the NHS is safe with UKIP, we support front line staff.

UKIP are fighting for working men and women because it is working men and women who are most affected by large scale immigration created by Labour, who allowed 4 million immigrants to come to Britain whilst in government and continued under the tories where net immigration has averaged 200,00 every year since they came to power, this year the net immigration figure is 243,000. Add the 200,000 babies born to mothers born overseas each year and that's 400,000 new immigrants every year, the very reason wages are depressed by over supply of labour and why our hospitals and school places are struggling to cope with demand.

Only UKIP can reduce immigration to 10's of thousands, the tories have proven they can't and Labour never will because immigration suits their cause.

Labour has betrayed working men and women in this country and the tories simply don't care about us, UKIP care are fighting for their interests that is why working men and women should vote UKIP.

and here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of etc etc...

 

[cibaman]

The issue for UKIP is whether they can make it through an election campaign talking only about the EU and immigration. Once they're forced to talk about wider issues, specific economic policies, it could all fall apart. And in a general election campaign they will not be able to direct everything through Farage. We'll hear more from other members of the party, they'll all start contradicting each other. The nutcases and loonies will be exposed.

Even if they do manage to keep the focus on Farage he's shown a tendency to buckle under pressure. He doesnt have the stamina of someone like Salmond. UKIP may be flavour of the month for many at the moment but they could easily crumble at a general election.

 

[Rascal]

Of course as my previous post pointed out all reliant on the UK leaving the EU

No mention of students

No mention of emmigration

No mention of asylum

And what happens if the economy explodes into amazing growth and we have nobody to do the jobs that are needed because of an arbitary target.

The policy sounds all well and good but it is more porous than my mamas colander

Hi Adrian

What was said about the above

Cheers

Conversing with you is wasted words as you made your mind up long ago, you support an irrelevant ideology that has no future. But just for shits and giggles on asylum given that we have pledged to "Abolish the provisions of the Dublin Treaty that prevents us from identifying the country of origin of illegal immigrants who come here with no identification" and to "Increase front line border staff by 2,500" and given that at conference asylum seekers requirement to seek sanctuary in the first safe country they enter was discussed it would be safe to assume there will be many fewer applications and far more deportations.

Despite your opinion I think we will find the voting public support our immigration policy.

OK thats asylum dealt with.

What about the other stuff i asked?

Im giving you a chance here to tell us what your party stands for.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

What is UKIP's policy on the Ryder Cup?

 

[blueonblue]

Well cutting the 15 billion we dish out in foreign aid and invest it in our own country sounds like a f*cking great idea to me, and before we get the bleating BHLs "What about the starving children" routine, lets remember we are giving it to the likes of China, Pakistan and India, all who choose to spend their money on arms and space programs rather than their own people.

Scraping all green taxes and wind turbine subsidies is another great idea, we were sold a pack of lies on "Global warming" that the evidence has shown to be utter bollocks, every family in the UK would see their energy bills cut immediately.
Worth pointing out that the three countries listed above under aid all produce energy by burning massive amounts of coal.

Make sentences mean what they say.

Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.

Open GP surgeries in the evening, for full-time workers, where there is demand.

• Locally-elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals - to avoid another Stafford Hospital crisis.

• Priorities social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.

• Allow the creation of new grammar schools.

• Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. Benefits only available to those who have lived here for over 5 years.




...........Whoa, these boys are on a role here, its almost as if they know what most people in the uk want, ;0)

 

[roaminblue]

"UKIP, like most political parties have the economic nous of an aubergine".

There you go, arrogance, you and people of your ilk know better than the rest of us. Of course I am aware of the unfunded pension deficit but we can't keep kicking the can down the road until we are so full there is literally no room to swing a cat, the country is only so big, anyone entering must be needed and skilled. Nigel said on the Andrew Marr show this morning that some things are more important than a few pips on GDP and this is one of them, I get it, we are going to be poorer in the future, the days of continued greater wealth are over and we are going to have to work later into old age, many difficult decisions will have to be made.

hahaha, ok fair enough. I wasn't talking about you. I was referring more to the economists that use selective data to fit a political ideological viewpoint, or a campaign. But whatever, take it however you want.

As for me and my ilk. Not sure what that means. I'm not an economist, I work with a number of economists, and my view is informed by them, and you know what. Yes. they do know more than the rest of us. Thats why its their job. They are paid to know more than the rest of us.

Second part. If you saw what I read, I never said I was particularly pro whole sale immigration, I gave a list of possible eventualities that were glossed over by you completely. As for Nigel's comments. Read again the figures. Please. This is more than a few pips on GDP. Just do a quick calculation and have a look at the projected deficit between income and liabilities.

This isn't a case of us being poorer, this is a case of us (if immigration is stopped and the population remains as healthy as it is) having to pay more out in public pensions than we have as income.

As I said previously, though i get the impression it will be ignored, there are a number of solutions (in my mind). One is immigration, one is a tiny state with pensions provided by the private sector, and one is increasing birth rates, one is greater international political union.

Any other suggestions I'm welcome to listen. I know which one I think it will be, but I'm always prepared to be proven wrong. Seriously.

You are right, the age of retirement will increase, a lot more than it has already. Not that this is neccessarily a bad thing, it could be better for the economy. Lets hope employers see it this way as well.

As for economists, did you all see the financial crash coming? If you did you kept very quite about it. There are many economists with many different views but politics is more important than the opinions of one group of economists or those of self serving big businesses for that matter.

I'm not an economist, and I wasn't working when the financial crash occured. But to answer your question (about colleagues) a couple of them did yes. Which is why their company came through very unscathed.

For what its worth, if only for informed debate. There has been the suggestion that in terms of crisis counting, we are currently at 2003 again (of course there are a lot of factors that aren't the same back then) but we are not structurally robust enough to make it inconceiveable that we won't find ourselves in another crash within the next 15 years.

£5bn the cost tax credits to European migrants, £6-9 billion the cost of educating 1m children in our schools, the children of immigrants, £17.6bn the cost of free NHS treatment for the 8m immigrants living here. £10bn the cost of EU membership and £11bn the foreign aid budget. There are many things we can do to reduce spending in order to fund the state pension that today costs £80bn.

Thats all well and good. All the recent studies show migrants have a net positive impact, again, ONS is your friend. Secondly, quote that £80bn figure again, and look at the projection. Tell me this deficit can be solved by simply increasing the working age?

We both know and realise there are major issues in the future re pensions and healthcare but we in UKIP are committed to the NHS remaining free at the point of need and I would rather face up to the pensions issues sooner rather than later. Relying on immigration to fund pensions and heathcare is a ponzi scheme solution because in the end we will run out of land for houses, schools and hospitals. Mark Reckless was an economist and he seemed very happy to join us on Saturday, maybe he is not only brave and principled for leaving the tories because they broke the promises he made to his electorate and to seek reelection in a far from easy by-election but also to confront these issues now, not just kick the can down the road for the next generation to deal with.

Didn't you just criticise someone for having made their mind up? I've pushed numbers under your nose. You called me arrogant for suggesting economists no better than you or I. Here's your chance, prove me wrong.

Where does the income come from to drive down deficit, fund the nhs (your point not mine) and pay for pensions. Are are you exactly as you've suggested others are? Committed to your belief regardless of what evidence or questions are put in front of you?

You want to face up to pensions issue. Go on, how? If immigration is a ponzi scheme, how's it going to be replaced as a source of funding? Higher tax?

Certainly not under Mr reckless' watch that's for sure.

Be careful Adrian, because if you get your way you may stumble blindly into 'laissez faire

 

[TGR]

Well cutting the 15 billion we dish out in foreign aid and invest it in our own country sounds like a f*cking great idea to me, and before we get the bleating BHLs "What about the starving children" routine, lets remember we are giving it to the likes of China, Pakistan and India, all who choose to spend their money on arms and space programs rather than their own people.

Scraping all green taxes and wind turbine subsidies is another great idea, we were sold a pack of lies on "Global warming" that the evidence has shown to be utter bollocks, every family in the UK would see their energy bills cut immediately.
Worth pointing out that the three countries listed above under aid all produce energy by burning massive amounts of coal.

Make sentences mean what they say.

Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.

Open GP surgeries in the evening, for full-time workers, where there is demand.

• Locally-elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals - to avoid another Stafford Hospital crisis.

• Priorities social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.

• Allow the creation of new grammar schools.

• Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. Benefits only available to those who have lived here for over 5 years.




...........Whoa, these boys are on a role here, its almost as if they know what most people in the uk want, ;0)

It won't be to long before the LWNJ's on here are calling you a Daily Mail reading 'little Englander', xenophobic, racist and a bigot - they do like to shout people down who don't agree with their ideology.
What you have written would be regarded as common sense to the majority of most average, working class people. Hence the rising and increasing popularity of UKIP and they are not going away anytime soon.
However, I fear Ed Milliband and Ed 'I Crashed The Car' Balls' will be making the decisions after the next election due to the defection of rank & file Tory voters who turn to UKIP. Also the current Tory party are completely useless regarding how they promote and communicate their message. Dave & George are only slightly better than Ed & Ed. It is a sad reflection of the sorry state of politics in the UK today.

 

[stonerblue]

Well cutting the 15 billion we dish out in foreign aid and invest it in our own country sounds like a f*cking great idea to me, and before we get the bleating BHLs "What about the starving children" routine, lets remember we are giving it to the likes of China, Pakistan and India, all who choose to spend their money on arms and space programs rather than their own people.

Scraping all green taxes and wind turbine subsidies is another great idea, we were sold a pack of lies on "Global warming" that the evidence has shown to be utter bollocks, every family in the UK would see their energy bills cut immediately.
Worth pointing out that the three countries listed above under aid all produce energy by burning massive amounts of coal.

Make sentences mean what they say.

Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.

Open GP surgeries in the evening, for full-time workers, where there is demand.

• Locally-elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals - to avoid another Stafford Hospital crisis.

• Priorities social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.

• Allow the creation of new grammar schools.

• Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. Benefits only available to those who have lived here for over 5 years.




...........Whoa, these boys are on a role here, its almost as if they know what most people in the uk want, ;0)

I'd be interested to see this evidence

 

[lloydie]

Well cutting the 15 billion we dish out in foreign aid and invest it in our own country sounds like a f*cking great idea to me, and before we get the bleating BHLs "What about the starving children" routine, lets remember we are giving it to the likes of China, Pakistan and India, all who choose to spend their money on arms and space programs rather than their own people.

Scraping all green taxes and wind turbine subsidies is another great idea, we were sold a pack of lies on "Global warming" that the evidence has shown to be utter bollocks, every family in the UK would see their energy bills cut immediately.
Worth pointing out that the three countries listed above under aid all produce energy by burning massive amounts of coal.

Make sentences mean what they say.

Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.

Open GP surgeries in the evening, for full-time workers, where there is demand.

• Locally-elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals - to avoid another Stafford Hospital crisis.

• Priorities social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.

• Allow the creation of new grammar schools.

• Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. Benefits only available to those who have lived here for over 5 years.




...........Whoa, these boys are on a role here, its almost as if they know what most people in the uk want, ;0)

I agree with that bold bit, nothing wrong with Grammar Nazi's.
I suggest you proof read before you post.

 

[blueonblue]

I`m not so sure the Wallace look alike will get elected in spite of the scare mongering by both of the main parties, nor do I think that labor can count on what was traditional hard core areas of support anymore.
They have certainly pissed on their chips in jock land, while the once solid council house areas have cottoned on to why there are no jobs, houses, school places, or hospital beds available for them.

I think there is going to be one almighty upheaval in British politics come the next G.E., middle England is royally pissed off with the usual bunch of crooks.

 

[Rascal]

Rumours all over twatter of another Tory MP defecting to UKIP


Rats and sinking ships come to mind.


Hope its Nadine Dorries, that would be hilarious

 

[Clevers]

Make sentences mean what they say.

When it comes to communication that will be a first for politicians.

 

[Clevers]

What is UKIP's policy on the Ryder Cup?

There was beer so he was there.

 

[foxy]

Well cutting the 15 billion we dish out in foreign aid and invest it in our own country sounds like a f*cking great idea to me, and before we get the bleating BHLs "What about the starving children" routine, lets remember we are giving it to the likes of China, Pakistan and India, all who choose to spend their money on arms and space programs rather than their own people.

Scraping all green taxes and wind turbine subsidies is another great idea, we were sold a pack of lies on "Global warming" that the evidence has shown to be utter bollocks, every family in the UK would see their energy bills cut immediately.
Worth pointing out that the three countries listed above under aid all produce energy by burning massive amounts of coal.

Make sentences mean what they say.

Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.

Open GP surgeries in the evening, for full-time workers, where there is demand.

• Locally-elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals - to avoid another Stafford Hospital crisis.

• Priorities social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.

• Allow the creation of new grammar schools.

• Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. Benefits only available to those who have lived here for over 5 years.




...........Whoa, these boys are on a role here, its almost as if they know what most people in the uk want, ;0)

It won't be to long before the LWNJ's on here are calling you a Daily Mail reading 'little Englander', xenophobic, racist and a bigot - they do like to shout people down who don't agree with their ideology.
What you have written would be regarded as common sense to the majority of most average, working class people. Hence the rising and increasing popularity of UKIP and they are not going away anytime soon.
However, I fear Ed Milliband and Ed 'I Crashed The Car' Balls' will be making the decisions after the next election due to the defection of rank & file Tory voters who turn to UKIP. Also the current Tory party are completely useless regarding how they promote and communicate their message. Dave & George are only slightly better than Ed & Ed. It is a sad reflection of the sorry state of politics in the UK today.

Love the hypocrisy of LWNJs. They bang on about lack of democracy and more rights, yet they attack people with different views in an insulting manner and act in a malicious way.