UKIP

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Hopefully if things pan out as per my last post, the whole political machine will paint itself into a corner where proportional representation is the only way out. That could one day help to install grown up politics in the remnants of the UK. It will take a while though.

Wishful thinking and thinking that will remain a wish. We have decided against PR and its watered down version AV, with a vote, wisely, in my opinion. If UKIP is to succeed it will have to do it the hard way. I'm pretty sure the PR question will remain dead and buried, and thank fuck for that, if I want to vote candidate A into power I don't want candidates B,C,D and F diluting his influence and ending up with elections every ten minutes, similar to Italy and the like.

AV and PR are very different. One person, one vote and 1/500 of the vote gets one seat. Imagine a parliament made up of dozens of small special interest groups. It would take a while as they bickered amongst themselves but it could lead to a truly representative democracy in the end.

Totally agree, but turkeys don't......errrrr.........vote for Christmas.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Hopefully if things pan out as per my last post, the whole political machine will paint itself into a corner where proportional representation is the only way out. That could one day help to install grown up politics in the remnants of the UK. It will take a while though.

Wishful thinking and thinking that will remain a wish. We have decided against PR and its watered down version AV, with a vote, wisely, in my opinion. If UKIP is to succeed it will have to do it the hard way. I'm pretty sure the PR question will remain dead and buried, and thank fuck for that, if I want to vote candidate A into power I don't want candidates B,C,D and F diluting his influence and ending up with elections every ten minutes, similar to Italy and the like.

AV and PR are very different. One person, one vote and 1/500 of the vote gets one seat. Imagine a parliament made up of dozens of small special interest groups. It would take a while as they bickered amongst themselves but it could lead to a truly representative democracy in the end.

No, it would lead to constant bickering and would greatly influence decision making in a bad way. ie; important decisions being constantly shelved because of said bickering. Anyway it won't happen.
If you want UKIP in, I suggest you follow GDM's advice and find yourself a billion quid, you're only going to win within the first past the post system, so get used to the idea.

 

[Challenger1978]

I do think there's room for a new political party in this country, one that isn't stuck in the 1950's, but it would need bankrolling to the tune of a billion quid, I reckon, to have any chance of at least forming part of a future government.

Hopefully if things pan out as per my last post, the whole political machine will paint itself into a corner where proportional representation is the only way out. That could one day help to install grown up politics in the remnants of the UK. It will take a while though.

Wishful thinking and thinking that will remain a wish. We have decided against PR and its watered down version AV, with a vote, wisely, in my opinion. If UKIP is to succeed it will have to do it the hard way. I'm pretty sure the PR question will remain dead and buried, and thank fuck for that, if I want to vote candidate A into power I don't want candidates B,C,D and F diluting his influence and ending up with elections every ten minutes, similar to Italy and the like.

We didn't get a vote on PR did we, it was just a vote for AV wasn't it ?

My memory is a bit fuzzy I'm not long up.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Hopefully if things pan out as per my last post, the whole political machine will paint itself into a corner where proportional representation is the only way out. That could one day help to install grown up politics in the remnants of the UK. It will take a while though.

Wishful thinking and thinking that will remain a wish. We have decided against PR and its watered down version AV, with a vote, wisely, in my opinion. If UKIP is to succeed it will have to do it the hard way. I'm pretty sure the PR question will remain dead and buried, and thank fuck for that, if I want to vote candidate A into power I don't want candidates B,C,D and F diluting his influence and ending up with elections every ten minutes, similar to Italy and the like.

We didn't get a vote on PR did we, it was just a vote for AV wasn't it ?

My memory is a bit fuzzy I'm not long up.

Correct, but the result means PR will never have a chance, so it's pointless striving for it in this country, UKIP, Greens, Liberals and sundry others all wish it wasn't the case but they'll have to get used to it.

 

[Chancy Termites]

Wishful thinking and thinking that will remain a wish. We have decided against PR and its watered down version AV, with a vote, wisely, in my opinion. If UKIP is to succeed it will have to do it the hard way. I'm pretty sure the PR question will remain dead and buried, and thank fuck for that, if I want to vote candidate A into power I don't want candidates B,C,D and F diluting his influence and ending up with elections every ten minutes, similar to Italy and the like.

We didn't get a vote on PR did we, it was just a vote for AV wasn't it ?

My memory is a bit fuzzy I'm not long up.

Correct, but the result means PR will never have a chance, so it's pointless striving for it in this country, UKIP, Greens, Liberals and sundry others all wish it wasn't the case but they'll have to get used to it.

If, big if, Scotland leaves the UK, Labour won't be able win under a first past the post system either. Without the votes they receive from Scotland, where there are more MPs per head than the rest of the UK, they will be relegated to also-rans. The establishment is still served by the conservatives and a few Labour MPs but nowhere near where they are now. The door COULD be opened to PR.. After that, it's up to electorate whether we take an interest in politics or whether people just keep voting for the proper noun they most like on the ballot paper.

 

[PrestwichPeteMcfc]

I fail to understand why after failure in election upon election, UKIP continue to receive so much media publicity.
But as long as they continue to split the tory vote long may they live.

A tight little establishment clique made up of the 3 old corrupt parties, the major TV broadcasters, the City and large corporations are working hard to keep themselves in a position where they can shaft the ordinary man on the street while feathering their own nests. Just as they have always done.

They're in a corner now though. Millions of people are finally waking up to the fact that these corrupt, lying, thieving dinosaurs have been working to their own ends, and are going to use their votes to upset the political apple cart and start to get rid of the establishment criminal fraternity. They have to fight back and one major tactic is to try to dish the dirt on their opponents, at least those who represent a threat to the status quo.

UKIPs vote at the next European election is going to be huge. They'll probably finish second. A few months later is the Scottish independence referendum. The Scots more than anyone in the UK have allowed themselves to be led by the anti UKIP propaganda machine so the bigger the vote for UKIP, the more Scots who will vote for independence. If Scotland votes for independence then the Labour Party will cease to have any relevance in the rest of the UK.

So the Conservative establishment criminals and the Labour establishment criminals now feel, with good reason, that their cosy leeching lifestyles are under threats rom UKIP. The media is spinning like crazy to help their buddies hang on to power, where they can make media friendly laws and dish out knighthoods to their friends and one tactic that they have adopted is to try to portray UKIP as racist. They hope that by repeating this often enough, people will start to believe it and, in fairness some people do.

By only reporting negative stories about UKIP, while ensuring that similar such negative stories about the establishment are suppressed, they can present this as a veneer that some people will accept at face value. Fortunately though, more people now see it for the desperate propaganda exercise that it is and, once again, UKIP's support will rise.

Without the Scottish vote, labour would have still won the 1997, 2001 and 2005 elections. Please explain where your notion that Labour would be irrelevant without the Scottish vote comes from?

That aside, the simple reason why UKIP get so much air time despite poor election results is because they are the 3rd most popular party in the country at the moment.

 

[Challenger1978]

Wishful thinking and thinking that will remain a wish. We have decided against PR and its watered down version AV, with a vote, wisely, in my opinion. If UKIP is to succeed it will have to do it the hard way. I'm pretty sure the PR question will remain dead and buried, and thank fuck for that, if I want to vote candidate A into power I don't want candidates B,C,D and F diluting his influence and ending up with elections every ten minutes, similar to Italy and the like.

We didn't get a vote on PR did we, it was just a vote for AV wasn't it ?

My memory is a bit fuzzy I'm not long up.

Correct, but the result means PR will never have a chance, so it's pointless striving for it in this country, UKIP, Greens, Liberals and sundry others all wish it wasn't the case but they'll have to get used to it.

The result was for AV not PR.

Most people i know didn't even know what AV was before the referendum. They would of considered a vote for PR but AV is bleeding daft so no one was ever going to vote for it (least offensive wins ffs).

Why the fuck Nick Clegg gave in and let the referendum be about AV instead of PR I'll never know. He sold out everything for what his party stood for. I could of understood it if he had managed to get a vote on PR. To sell out for AV though was just nuts. David Cameron must of been pissing himself with laughter when the silly twat agreed to the AV referendum.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

We didn't get a vote on PR did we, it was just a vote for AV wasn't it ?

My memory is a bit fuzzy I'm not long up.

Correct, but the result means PR will never have a chance, so it's pointless striving for it in this country, UKIP, Greens, Liberals and sundry others all wish it wasn't the case but they'll have to get used to it.

If, big if, Scotland leaves the UK, Labour won't be able win under a first past the post system either. Without the votes they receive from Scotland, where there are more MPs per head than the rest of the UK, they will be relegated to also-rans. The establishment is still served by the conservatives and a few Labour MPs but nowhere near where they are now. The door COULD be opened to PR.. After that, it's up to electorate whether we take an interest in politics or whether people just keep voting for the proper noun they most like on the ballot paper.

I'm sure, but haven't checked, that Labour would have won under Blair, even if they didn't include Scotland, and I'm fairly sure that Thatcher didn't rely on it either, as it has never been Consevative country.
The electorate roundly rejected AV, and there is no reason to think we''d all be changing our minds just because the Jocks have fucked off.

 

[Chancy Termites]

I fail to understand why after failure in election upon election, UKIP continue to receive so much media publicity.
But as long as they continue to split the tory vote long may they live.

A tight little establishment clique made up of the 3 old corrupt parties, the major TV broadcasters, the City and large corporations are working hard to keep themselves in a position where they can shaft the ordinary man on the street while feathering their own nests. Just as they have always done.

They're in a corner now though. Millions of people are finally waking up to the fact that these corrupt, lying, thieving dinosaurs have been working to their own ends, and are going to use their votes to upset the political apple cart and start to get rid of the establishment criminal fraternity. They have to fight back and one major tactic is to try to dish the dirt on their opponents, at least those who represent a threat to the status quo.

UKIPs vote at the next European election is going to be huge. They'll probably finish second. A few months later is the Scottish independence referendum. The Scots more than anyone in the UK have allowed themselves to be led by the anti UKIP propaganda machine so the bigger the vote for UKIP, the more Scots who will vote for independence. If Scotland votes for independence then the Labour Party will cease to have any relevance in the rest of the UK.

So the Conservative establishment criminals and the Labour establishment criminals now feel, with good reason, that their cosy leeching lifestyles are under threats rom UKIP. The media is spinning like crazy to help their buddies hang on to power, where they can make media friendly laws and dish out knighthoods to their friends and one tactic that they have adopted is to try to portray UKIP as racist. They hope that by repeating this often enough, people will start to believe it and, in fairness some people do.

By only reporting negative stories about UKIP, while ensuring that similar such negative stories about the establishment are suppressed, they can present this as a veneer that some people will accept at face value. Fortunately though, more people now see it for the desperate propaganda exercise that it is and, once again, UKIP's support will rise.

Without the Scottish vote, labour would have still won the 1997, 2001 and 2005 elections. Please explain where your notion that Labour would be irrelevant without the Scottish vote comes from?

That aside, the simple reason why UKIP get so much air time despite poor election results is because they are the 3rd most popular party in the country at the moment.

Smaller majority 2005 - in the order of say Edward Heath where rebel MPs would hold undue influence.

Overall Conservative majority in 2010.

Labour Party is already massively in debt. Serious risk of going bust or at least not being able to promote itself fully without the Scottish turbo charging effect.

 

[mayo31]

We didn't get a vote on PR did we, it was just a vote for AV wasn't it ?

My memory is a bit fuzzy I'm not long up.

Correct, but the result means PR will never have a chance, so it's pointless striving for it in this country, UKIP, Greens, Liberals and sundry others all wish it wasn't the case but they'll have to get used to it.

The result was for AV not PR.

Most people i know didn't even know what AV was before the referendum. They would of considered a vote for PR but AV is bleeding daft so no one was ever going to vote for it (least offensive wins ffs).

Why the fuck Nick Clegg gave in and let the referendum be about AV instead of PR I'll never know. He sold out everything for what his party stood for. I could of understood it if he had managed to get a vote on PR. To sell out for AV though was just nuts. David Cameron must of been pissing himself with laughter when the silly twat agreed to the AV referendum.

Nick Clegg saw the chance for some 'power' and sold his soul. If Labour and the Tories do a job publicity wise on this fact before the next election the lib dems could be killed off as a third party.

The guy and the ginger Danny Alexander are a disgrace to their parties and I hope they regret it. They in effect lied more than any other party ever has and did a judas, one of the quickest sell outs ever.

I also cannot stand that umpalumpa woman who is always on question time, her name escapes me