United thread 2012/13 (inc merged IPO thread)

[smudgedj]

Where's PB when we need him most, if that Chinese is still playing up you are excused

And then they've only got 12 months to refinance the bonds.

Piece of piss to do, 10 year naming rights on the stadium. Uniteds customers have that to come yet.

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

$13.94 on after hours trading.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

$13.94 on after hours trading.

The underwriters apparently only have to support the price during normal trading hours. In after hours trading you will get a truer indication of intentions as they're not obliged to pick up shares then.

 

[JM Mcr]

Obviously, this was done for tax avoidance purposes. United said it expects its Cayman registration to make it subject to U.S. taxes, (see page 38)

This doesn't make sense to me. US corporation tax is higher than UK corporation tax so the company will be paying more tax on any profits, rather than avoiding it...whether it will benefit the Glazers on their personal taxes I don't know (for Capital Gains tax for instance) but I recall reading somewhere that they registered the business in the Caymans because it offers more privacy from a financial standpoint, it allowed them to launch the IPO in the States (thereby utilising their preferred dual share structure) and because The Caymans also apparently has quite strict provisions against hostile takeovers, making the Glazers position more secure in the event of a further share issue than would be the case elsewhere.

 

[Marvin]

from an article by andersred ,

So the Manchester United IPO has finally
happened. Having failed in Hong Kong and
Singapore, the Glazers and their
increasingly desperate bankers ditched
their own ludicrous $16-20 per share price
range and the shares have limped on to the
NYSE at a still very, very aggressive price of
$14 per share.
The whole saga has been a grubby and
unedifying spectacle in our club's history
that does very, very little indeed to
improve the club's finances. The whole
exercise has only been undertaken to help
the Glazer family with their cash flow
problems.
From the latest SEC filing we have
confirmation that at the lower issue price,
the club will receive net proceeds (after
underwriters' discounts and commissions)
of c. $110.3m (around £70.7m).
The club will use all this $110.3m to repay
$101.7m face value (£63.6m) of the 2017
US$ notes at a price of 108.375% of
nominal value.
These US$ notes pay 8.375% interest so the
annual saving before tax will be:
£63.6m x 8.375% = £5.3m per year
Because interest is tax deductible, this
reduction in interest paid will increase
taxable profits. As a consequence of the
IPO, United will pay US Federal Income
Taxes at a rate of 35%. The net interest
saving after tax will therefore be:
£5.3m x (1 - 0.35) = £3.46m per year
This net saving is the equivalent of the
matchday income from one game at Old
Trafford. It is just over 1% of the club's
annual revenue and around 3-4% of
EBITDA.
Before any United fans begin celebrating
this tiny saving, there is a further sting in
the tail.
The prospectus informs us that the club,
and not the family, will bear the expenses
of the IPO. From page 151 we can see that
these expenses total $12.3m (c. £7.9m).
With so little debt repaid and United
bearing the £7.9m of expenses, it will
take until the end of 2014 for the club to
even break-even from the IPO, let alone
benefit financially.
And the Glazer family? They receive their
$110m straight away.
That's "Glazernomics" folks.....!

-- Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:42 pm --

Glazers really know how to make money , so united save £3m a year on interest , that will make no difference at all , while glazers get the money they want

That's a great summary.

 

[salfordpaul]

my brother is a fund manager, he had shares in manyoo years ago and made good money out of selling them.

i've told him about this thread and he said he would have a look and throw his two pennith in (he's not a member so if SP starts spouting shite on this thread in the next week you know the score)

his first words tonight were "wouldn t touch them !"

 

[Guy_Fawkes2010]

Where's PB when we need him most, if that Chinese is still playing up you are excused

I'm here mate. Cast iron stomach me.

Not much more to say really. Marvin is right that it has little day-to-day impact on them. The interest bill has gone down a bit but tax will be up. Andersred now reckons it will take 4 years rather than the 2 he initially calculated to make a difference. And then they've only got 12 months to refinance the bonds. Almost certainly the share price will slip down and that will make them less valuable and give the Glazers less incentive to sell. If it had been a roaring success then they might have been tempted to sell more.

The Glazers have made some money but it probably only covers a third of the personal debt they are supposed to have taken on to pay off the PIK notes. So they've probably avoided triggering penalty clauses but they're still in pretty deep. It may be that they put the squeeze on the club, taking more cash out. They seem tos be a bit strapped anyway so thats to our advantage.

And of course this could be Baconface's last season and who knows what might happen then?

Who are the major bond holders for MANU ?

 

[fathellensbellend]

united have now taken to selling vip packages on groupon, oh dear

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Where's PB when we need him most, if that Chinese is still playing up you are excused

I'm here mate. Cast iron stomach me.

Not much more to say really. Marvin is right that it has little day-to-day impact on them. The interest bill has gone down a bit but tax will be up. Andersred now reckons it will take 4 years rather than the 2 he initially calculated to make a difference. And then they've only got 12 months to refinance the bonds. Almost certainly the share price will slip down and that will make them less valuable and give the Glazers less incentive to sell. If it had been a roaring success then they might have been tempted to sell more.

The Glazers have made some money but it probably only covers a third of the personal debt they are supposed to have taken on to pay off the PIK notes. So they've probably avoided triggering penalty clauses but they're still in pretty deep. It may be that they put the squeeze on the club, taking more cash out. They seem tos be a bit strapped anyway so thats to our advantage.

And of course this could be Baconface's last season and who knows what might happen then?

Who are the major bond holders for MANU ?

No idea.

 

[samharris]

NYSE has announced that if MANU's stock price isn't up at the end of business, additional time will be added to trading hours until it is.

Quality.. :)