United thread 2012/13 (inc merged IPO thread)

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44% said:
diminbeirut.typepad.com/

excellent again , more like an extension to the first part

sorry if already posted
Just read it pal. This guy's totally over the edge. Are they really facts or has he just pulled them out of thin air?

After I wrote my last piece, http://diminbeirut.typepad.com/my-blog/2012/09/the-truth-is-out-there.html, on Manchester United’s relationship with the FA, I was taken aback by the response I had.The post has gotten around 30,000 hits in the last 48 hours alone. I suggest to people who haven’t read it to jump to that post now as it gives a lot of background on what we will look at in this article.

As stated in my previous post, the fortunes of the institutions surrounding football in the UK will be negatively hit should any proof of corruption come out. It is naturally in their interest not to investigate the matter. In fact, the managers that have come out and questioned the refereeing
selection process (Rafa Benitez, Andre Villas Boas) have been turned into laughing stocks by the English press corps.

So, investigate some more I did. And some of the stuff I found out surprised even me.

During United’s title winning 2010/11 season, they only lost 4 league games. I looked at who refereed those games and how long they then spent without being assigned Manchester United games as well their subsequent trend of behavior towards United.

Michael Oliver took charge of their first defeat, the February 2011 2-1 loss at Wolves. He was not given another Manchester United game to referee until December 2011. Since then, Oliver has had 2 United games.

United have won both, with Oliver refusing to give a clear Fulham penalty in the 1-0 United win late last season at Old Trafford; a game came right at the end of the title race. A few weeks ago, Oliver gave United a penalty for a shocking dive by Danny Welbeck in the home win against Wigan.

The second game United lost was away to Chelsea. Martin Atkinson was the referee then and some of his decisions incurred the wrath of Alex Ferguson. Atkinson was not given another United game to referee for an ENTIRE YEAR.

Atkinson was further punished with his decisions that went against United that day. He was not given a single premier league game to referee for a full month. Even worse, he was subsequently given 3 lower league games to referee that season- when he’d previously not officiated a single one
that campaign.

It seems that Atkinson was given a clear message that day.

The 3rd United loss came at Anfield, where a Dirk Kuyt hat trick secured a 3-1 home win. The referee that day was Phil Dowd. He was criticized by Ferguson for not sending Jamie Carragher off. In the very next United game Dowd refereed, he gave them a penalty which secured a 1-1 draw
at Blackburn and their 19th league title.

Giving United penalties in the very next game you referee them after having been criticized is a trend we’ll soon notice.

The final United loss of the 2010/11 season came at the Emirates, where Chris Foy refereed a 1-0 Arsenal win. It will come to no surprise to people to know that Foy was subsequently not assigned a United league game for, again, AN ENTIRE YEAR.

He did however referee 2 United games in the cups during that time. The first was in the Carling Cup against Crystal Palace. He awarded United a penalty. The second was at City in the FA Cup. United got a penalty and Vincent Kompany was sent off early in the game.

To resume, we’ve just analyzed what happened to the 4 referees that officiated United’s 4 league losses in the 2010/11 season. 2 of them were not given any more United league games for a full year (Atkinson and Foy), a third for 9 months (Oliver). 2 of those referees gave United penalties in the very next game (Foy and Dowd) they took charge of and one refused to give a blatant one to the opponents (Oliver). Martin Atkinson, was not given premier league games to officiate for an entire month and assigned to 3 lower league games.

I also looked at Mike Jones after prompting from the comments board. Jones refereed the 1-1 home draw with Newcastle last season and falsely awarded Demba Ba a penalty.

Subsequently, Jones was not given a single football game, at ANY level, to referee for an entire month. The next United game he was handed came a few months later, the 2-0 home win against Stoke which saw… You guessed it: 2 penalties awarded to Manchester United which, according to reports, were “very soft”.

How about Mark Halsey? Well, when he gave WBA a debatable penalty in the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford in May 2005 it was his 5th United game that season. He then also went an ENTIRE YEAR without being given any United games to referee. From 5 games in a season to none for a year. His
record since then? He’s refereed 11 Man Utd games which have seen 11 United wins: the latest coming at Anfield, where 3 controversial decisions went the away team’s way.

In terms of trends, considering what we discovered about Alan Wiley and Mark Clattenburg (whose record with no United games to referee now stands at 36 league games since he took charge of the 6-1 home loss to City), there’s enough to make you wonder what exactly is going on in the
referee selection process. It also ties in perfectly with ex referee Jeff Winter's comments about The FA being reticent to assign United games to referees Ferguson has criticized in the past.

The whole world revolves around incentives and punishment. From a young age, kids are brought up that way. Positive and negative reinforcement are at the very core of child psychology. You can’t blame people who are well aware of the punishment awaiting them (through the form of demotions
and suspension from future United games) if they’d rather go for the safe option of keeping Ferguson happy.

I don’t blame the referees.

The people I blame are the ones that are letting this happen. The media who have not uttered a peep or written a single article about this for 2 decades. The FA who run the game in this country and have allowed this situation to fester. The clubs who see no issue with having David Gill, United's CEO, on the board of the FA. And of course, the PGMOB: the people who regulate officiating in England

The person at the head of the PGMOB and who is in charge of selecting which referee gets handed which game is Mike Riley, an ex professional referee who is most famous for giving a penalty for a clear dive by Wayne Rooney in the 2004 Man United 2-0 win against Arsenal which ended the
Gunners 49 game unbeaten streak.

Riley was accused of pro United favoritism throughout his career. For younger readers, he’s my generation’s Howard Webb.

According to the Guardian’s research, which goes to back to the beginning of the 1997-98 season until 2004, “Riley refereed 23 United games in all competitions and gave 12 penalties for United in that time, but only three against them. And he has sent off five of United's opponents.

At Old Trafford, Riley's record is weighted even more heavily in favor of United: He gave 10 penalties in the 14 games he officiated to the home side, Manchester United.”

Riley’s bias was so suspected than when was awarded the Everton vs Man Utd FA Cup semi final to officiate in 2009, David Moyes actually called for an investigation on whether Riley was a United supporter.

This is the man who now decides which premier league games to assign to referees.

Add that to everything we’ve found out: the year long waits for referees who take charge of United losses to be given another United game to officiate, the penalties that are given to United in said
referees next United games, the punishment for making mistakes that cost United points (Atkinson’s month long suspension from premier league games, Jones’ 1 month suspension from ALL PROFESSIONAL games), the comments from ex referee Jeff Winter (see my previous post), the fact that 18% of Howard Webb’s career penalties have gone to Manchester United,the retirement of Alain Wiley after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson and, of course, the presence of David Gill inside the FA and surely there’s enough there for some investigative journalist in the UK to actually look more into this.

If only to put the millions of football fans’ across the world’s minds at ease.

Because we could all be wrong and all of this may just be a set of freakish coincidences. Maybe English football is squeaky clean like they make us believe and the referee selection process is completely unbiased.

Maybe we’re just paranoid…

Or maybe not… Chris Foy failed to give Manchester United a penalty in their 3-2 loss to Spurs last Saturday. The PGMOB have not handed Foy a Premier League game to referee next weekend: instead, he will referee in League 2 for the first time in more than 4 years.

Mike Jones meanwhile, who missed a blatant penalty on Luis Suarez at Norwich, will take charge of West Brom vs QPR in the Premier League. Finally, Howard Webb (who sent off Jordi Gomez on Saturday; a red card today rescinded by the FA) will take charge of Newcastle’s home game against…Manchester United.

Why did Foy’s errors on Saturday lead to his demotion to the lowest professional league in England while Webb’s and Jones’ mistakes didn’t cost them?

I guess we all know the answer to that question…

http://diminbeirut.typepad.com/
 
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Superb post that mate, well researched. A clear indication of Ferguson's Machiavellian methods in manipulting football matches so his team have a better chance of winning. They'll be some depressingly weak paddling against the tide from a predictable few disputing the obvious, arguing tediously, trying to muddy the waters but it's clear to everyone that Man U are very happy to cheat if it gets them a win.
 
Italy saw Calciopoli for less than that

New Year games 2012... City plays on 1.1 at Sunderland and then 3.1 with Liverpool. United plays on 31.12 and 4.1

End of November 2011. - City plays Premier League game at Anfield on 27.11 and then League Cup one at Emirates on 29.11
- United play famous Newcastle one at home on 26. 11 and League Cup one against Crystal Palace at home on 30th.

This week - City play Wednesday night 3.10 game vs German Champions and gets awarded with 12:45 Saturday 6.10 Premier League game.
- United played Tuesday 2.10 night CL game against mighty Cluj and gets 7.10 Sunday 16:00 Premier League game.
 
MSP said:
Italy saw Calciopoli for less than that

New Year games 2012... City plays on 1.1 at Sunderland and then 3.1 with Liverpool. United plays on 31.12 and 4.1

End of November 2011. - City plays Premier League game at Anfield on 27.11 and then League Cup one at Emirates on 29.11
- United play famous Newcastle one at home on 26. 11 and League Cup one against Crystal Palace at home on 30th.

This week - City play Wednesday night 3.10 game vs German Champions and gets awarded with 12:45 Saturday 6.10 Premier League game.
- United played Tuesday 2.10 night CL game against mighty Cluj and gets 7.10 Sunday 16:00 Premier League game.

Yeah I am SICK of this happening all the time. We get these ridiculous lack of rest times while they have a day or more extra. I noticed it last season and it's gone on this season. Just happened against too, Arsenal on the 23rd then Villa on the 25th while United had Liverpool on the 23rd and Newcastle on the 26th - again an extra day compared to us. It is happening so many times that it doesn't seem that coincidental. And guess what? City vs. Ajax on the 24th, City vs. Swansea on the 27th. United vs. Braga on the 23rd, United vs. Chelsea on the 28th - again and again and again.
 
MSP said:
Italy saw Calciopoli for less than that

New Year games 2012... City plays on 1.1 at Sunderland and then 3.1 with Liverpool. United plays on 31.12 and 4.1

End of November 2011. - City plays Premier League game at Anfield on 27.11 and then League Cup one at Emirates on 29.11
- United play famous Newcastle one at home on 26. 11 and League Cup one against Crystal Palace at home on 30th.

This week - City play Wednesday night 3.10 game vs German Champions and gets awarded with 12:45 Saturday 6.10 Premier League game.
- United played Tuesday 2.10 night CL game against mighty Cluj and gets 7.10 Sunday 16:00 Premier League game.
Getting a bit daft this now. Check ref statistics - it's not uncommon for refs to go several months between officiating the same team again, hard to see any pattern to it unless you "cherry pick" games to suit your argument.

As for favourable runs of fixtures, Utd are away to Chelsea in the league on Sunday 28th October, again 3 days later in the league cup before facing Arsenal at home in the league on November 3rd. 4 days later they're away to Braga in the CL before playing Villa in the league on November 10 - that's 5 games in 14 days. City play Swansea in the league on October 27th, West Ham a week later then Ajax at home in the CL before facing Spurs in the league 5 days later. That's 4 games in 16 days, forgetting Utd's league cup game they're still scheduled to play Chelsea away and Arsenal at home in the space of a week whilst City have Swansea at home then West Ham away 8 days later. Utd also have an away match in the league 3 days after their away CL tie at Braga whilst City have a home CL tie to Ajax followed by a home match in the league 5 days later.

End of the day mate it's swings n roundabouts, fixtures fall for our teams at times and against our teams at times. As for referees, there's probably not much point me trying to rationalise that as I think most on here have made their minds up already. Suffice to say that Utd may get more than their fair share of decisions but probably not as much as some seem to think at the moment. Remember not all decisions are clear cut and our views are bound to be tinted by the colour of the glasses we're looking through. I can honestly say, without the benefit of hindsight or replays that Welbeck should not have been awarded a penalty against Wigan, Galatasaray should have had 2 pens at OT (and Utd should've had one) and Van Persie should've been sent off at Anfield. Using hindsight, or replays, some other decisions - most notably Suarez at Anfield - appear to have been wrong but I don't think they were so clear cut in "real time".

Edit: I know I said without hindsight but just remembered Welbeck should probably have been sent off against Wigan for his lunge late in the game....
 
MSP said:
Italy saw Calciopoli for less than that

New Year games 2012... City plays on 1.1 at Sunderland and then 3.1 with Liverpool. United plays on 31.12 and 4.1

End of November 2011. - City plays Premier League game at Anfield on 27.11 and then League Cup one at Emirates on 29.11
- United play famous Newcastle one at home on 26. 11 and League Cup one against Crystal Palace at home on 30th.

This week - City play Wednesday night 3.10 game vs German Champions and gets awarded with 12:45 Saturday 6.10 Premier League game.
- United played Tuesday 2.10 night CL game against mighty Cluj and gets 7.10 Sunday 16:00 Premier League game.

Don't forget to add that Newcastle played on Thursday night as well !
 
@The future's Blue

I think the guy must have done some research before posting it , he wouldn't have dared to make it all up as anyone can check their authencity by simply checking the referee's profile
 
szczecinmanc said:
MSP said:
Italy saw Calciopoli for less than that

New Year games 2012... City plays on 1.1 at Sunderland and then 3.1 with Liverpool. United plays on 31.12 and 4.1

End of November 2011. - City plays Premier League game at Anfield on 27.11 and then League Cup one at Emirates on 29.11
- United play famous Newcastle one at home on 26. 11 and League Cup one against Crystal Palace at home on 30th.

This week - City play Wednesday night 3.10 game vs German Champions and gets awarded with 12:45 Saturday 6.10 Premier League game.
- United played Tuesday 2.10 night CL game against mighty Cluj and gets 7.10 Sunday 16:00 Premier League game.

Don't forget to add that Newcastle played on Thursday night as well !
Isn't that the main reason the Newcastle/Utd game is on the Sunday?
 
szczecinmanc said:
MSP said:
Italy saw Calciopoli for less than that

New Year games 2012... City plays on 1.1 at Sunderland and then 3.1 with Liverpool. United plays on 31.12 and 4.1

End of November 2011. - City plays Premier League game at Anfield on 27.11 and then League Cup one at Emirates on 29.11
- United play famous Newcastle one at home on 26. 11 and League Cup one against Crystal Palace at home on 30th.

This week - City play Wednesday night 3.10 game vs German Champions and gets awarded with 12:45 Saturday 6.10 Premier League game.
- United played Tuesday 2.10 night CL game against mighty Cluj and gets 7.10 Sunday 16:00 Premier League game.

Don't forget to add that Newcastle played on Thursday night as well !

Newcastle don't have anything with City playing the earliest game. Arsenal playing the late game tomorrow and they also played on Tuesday.

Move the Newcastle one on Monday if you can't do it on other way.

There's absolutely no excuse to make City play lunchtime Saturday one.


As for favourable runs of fixtures, Utd are away to Chelsea in the league on Sunday 28th October, again 3 days later in the league cup before facing Arsenal at home in the league on November 3rd. 4 days later they're away to Braga in the CL before playing Villa in the league on November 10 - that's 5 games in 14 days. City play Swansea in the league on October 27th, West Ham a week later then Ajax at home in the CL before facing Spurs in the league 5 days later. That's 4 games in 16 days, forgetting Utd's league cup game they're still scheduled to play Chelsea away and Arsenal at home in the space of a week whilst City have Swansea at home then West Ham away 8 days later. Utd also have an away match in the league 3 days after their away CL tie at Braga whilst City have a home CL tie to Ajax followed by a home match in the league 5 days later.

City's lack of League Cup game is only thing that makes difference there.

When you play in Cups and CL it's normal that you'll play each 3 days but the problem is that City have been forced to play 2 games in barely more than 48 hours in 3 different situations in 10 months.

United not even once.

It's not normal to play 2 games with so little time for recovering. It basically means you have to replace full team if you don't want your players to burn or get injured.
 
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