United thread 2012/13 (inc merged IPO thread)

[Vinjay]

If he is faking it (and I fully believe he is) then he should never be allowed to wear an England shirt again. Clearly thinks he's above the U21's. Bet he hates the fact that no matter what he does the defining image of his career will always be the look on his face at Sunderland.

 

[Bluemanc100]

United play in a manner which is counter to what most call "modern football". The popular way of playing is a take on the Barcelona style, play lots of one and two touch football, short accurate passes, work the ball centrally and try and slot passes between the centre halves/full backs for forwards to run on to. It's how City play, it's how Chelsea play, it's how Arsenal play, it's how Swansea play and it's how Liverpool play. Some sides vary from this, but normally because they can't afford to bring in the style of player needed, think Stoke or West Ham. United do not play like this. United play like it's still 1995. They play with natural wingers (Young, Valencia, Nani), they get the ball out wide and they deliver crosses into the box. I'd be willing to bet that, if we were to look at which side has attempted the most crosses this season, United would be head and shoulders above the rest (by crosses I mean just that, crosses, not long lumped balls from deep in a Stoke style). It can't be coincidence that United have a manager in Fergie who had his greatest successes with this style of play in the 1990's. Fergie is 70 years old, he's not going to be employing new techniques at this point. He's not going to be paying Barcelona's training ground a visit to see if there's anything he can learn any time soon. He's a pensioner, and we all know how stubbord old folk can be! Part of United's success can be attributed to the abnormal manner in which they play, teams set their sides up to defend against the normal styles of play. If you're training all season to defend against "tiki-taka" football then suddenly having to deal with pace, strength, width and crossed hammered into the box is so alien to you it stands to reason United will benefit from that. Maybe this is part of Fergies tactical design, to be different to the rest, but I personally feel it's a happy coincidence that the stayle Fergie likes to play just happens to be a style very few others use anymore.

One thing that is for sure, when Fergie does indeed retire, whoever they bring in to replace him most certainly won't want to play in this manner. There will be such a seismic shift at United, both off and on the field, that it will be a monumental task to employ all the changes that will inevitable come, and be successful, at the same time.

Great post Matty...... I'll get the party poppers

 

[JM Mcr]

United play in a manner which is counter to what most call "modern football". The popular way of playing is a take on the Barcelona style, play lots of one and two touch football, short accurate passes, work the ball centrally and try and slot passes between the centre halves/full backs for forwards to run on to. It's how City play, it's how Chelsea play, it's how Arsenal play, it's how Swansea play and it's how Liverpool play. Some sides vary from this, but normally because they can't afford to bring in the style of player needed, think Stoke or West Ham. United do not play like this. United play like it's still 1995. They play with natural wingers (Young, Valencia, Nani), they get the ball out wide and they deliver crosses into the box. I'd be willing to bet that, if we were to look at which side has attempted the most crosses this season, United would be head and shoulders above the rest (by crosses I mean just that, crosses, not long lumped balls from deep in a Stoke style). It can't be coincidence that United have a manager in Fergie who had his greatest successes with this style of play in the 1990's. Fergie is 70 years old, he's not going to be employing new techniques at this point. He's not going to be paying Barcelona's training ground a visit to see if there's anything he can learn any time soon. He's a pensioner, and we all know how stubbord old folk can be! Part of United's success can be attributed to the abnormal manner in which they play, teams set their sides up to defend against the normal styles of play. If you're training all season to defend against "tiki-taka" football then suddenly having to deal with pace, strength, width and crossed hammered into the box is so alien to you it stands to reason United will benefit from that. Maybe this is part of Fergies tactical design, to be different to the rest, but I personally feel it's a happy coincidence that the stayle Fergie likes to play just happens to be a style very few others use anymore.

One thing that is for sure, when Fergie does indeed retire, whoever they bring in to replace him most certainly won't want to play in this manner. There will be such a seismic shift at United, both off and on the field, that it will be a monumental task to employ all the changes that will inevitable come, and be successful, at the same time.

Abnormal?? Yeah United use wingers, probably more often than most clubs, but this myth that keeps being peddled on here about the vast amount of crosses they swing into the box needs to be put into some sort of context. The link I pasted also included crossing stats and actually shows City had made more accurate crosses (126) than Utd (123) up to that point of the season. From the crossing accuracy figures you can also work out the numbers of crosses attempted by each club and my rudimentary maths puts it at 560 crosses attempted by Utd against 505 attempted by City. That's a difference of 55 over 21 games, or just over 2.5 more crosses attempted per match by Utd than Clayton's very own version of Barca.

As for Ferguson's inability to adapt, it's not at all unusual to see Utd playing 433/451 in europe - he primarily starts 442 in the league as it's very effective (if it aint broke don't fix it) but even then reverts to 433 for bigger games, or if the original formation isn't working (we'd withdrawn both wingers and were playing 3 up top at Fulham by the time Rooney scored).

 

[City Raider]

have united won anything under fergie not playing 4-4-2? i can't think of much

not that that's a problem, winning is winning and a lot of utd die hards hate anything other than 4-4-2

he's dabbled with other systems but not with any sustained success and is probably the reason for his comparatively poor european record, by his own admittance

 

[JM Mcr]

have united won anything under fergie not playing 4-4-2? i can't think of much

not that that's a problem, winning is winning and a lot of utd die hards hate anything other than 4-4-2

he's dabbled with other systems but not with any sustained success and is probably the reason for his comparatively poor european record, by his own admittance

Bearing in mind you'd need to consider the formation for every minute of every game in a tournament that's a bit of a simplistic way to look at things but I guess an example where we didn't play with "classic" wingers was the 2008 champions league final (unless you consider Hargreaves a winger). Changes in formations have contributed to many successes (lots of the games Ji Sung Park started were as part of a midfield 3 or 5 or there are the numerous games Rooney has played on the left side of a front 3 - scoring again from there at Fulham last Saturday). Face it, no team wins anything these days by rigidly sticking to one fixed formation or set of tactics.

And for what it's worth I prefer a 4-4-2 formation myself but I am getting on a bit these days ;-)

 

[ROCKET80]

I think that '08 season they were very much 4-3-3.

Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo all alternating their positions throughout the game.

I'd like to see us play a similar formation this season, we did for periods last year with the 6-1 being the main example. Silva, Mario, Aguero up top.

I'd like to see us play that way more often but we'd need the addition of a Ronaldo (direct pace) type player, possibly Bale.

 

[lionheart]

It appears that Fellaini has picked up a knock. No doubt Baines will miss the United game too. Moyes will be helping his old Scottish mate this time around.

 

[Tricky Dickys Right Foot Shot]

I think that '08 season they were very much 4-3-3.

Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo all alternating their positions throughout the game.

I'd like to see us play a similar formation this season, we did for periods last year with the 6-1 being the main example. Silva, Mario, Aguero up top.

I'd like to see us play that way more often but we'd need the addition of a Ronaldo (direct pace) type player, possibly Bale.

Cavani would be the ideal player, far better player then Bale with the pace to boot!

 

[AntiUnited]

It appears that Fellaini has picked up a knock. No doubt Baines will miss the United game too. Moyes will be helping his old Scottish mate this time around.

not surprised really this shit has happened for years like berba last week he could have easily scored the goals.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

It appears that Fellaini has picked up a knock. No doubt Baines will miss the United game too. Moyes will be helping his old Scottish mate this time around.

lucky bastards, fulham had no berbatov and no sidwell