United thread 2013/14

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lefty goldblatt said:
dobingsdobber said:
bazbarrybazzer said:
The chap behind Taggart looks like he is bumming him.
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Looks like Kevin Webster
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I refer the honourable gentleman to my post of 8:37 pm
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I am,sir,grateful for your referal and have,advisedly,edited same as per regulation and requirement.
You are yourself,sir,a gent.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
bazbarrybazzer said:
Is this even possible??

Fbloke (Andy M) ‏@TheRealFbloke 38m

United fans want to spend BIG. But how much is needed? £100m? £150m? Shame they voted for Financial Fair Play really.
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Is it possible they could spend £150m or that fbloke posted that?

They could spend £150m but it's more a case of do they want to. People are confusing two conflicting objectives: wanting to win things (which the fans and players want to do) and wanting to make money(which the Glazers want to do). Under Baconface they could do both to some degree but the Glazers weren't happy about the increase in costs. Some would say that one leads to the other and they'd have a point but the key question is how much would you need to spend to do that and what would it be worth if you did.

There's relatively little difference between coming 1st/2nd in the PL and 5th/6th. There's probably a bit more between going out in the last 16 of the CL and the semis but not a great deal more. They're still a huge global brand so they're pulling in as much commercial income as they can. Maybe in 10 years time if they've disappeared into consistent mid table mediocrity that might change but they're still big.

As I've said, not being in the CL might even be cost-neutral at worst. They'll be clearing some go the big-earners out, plus a few others. Ferdinand, Evra, Giggs, Vidic and Rooney may all go. They could get £50m or more for Rooney, plus some more for players like Anderson, Nani, Valencia & Young. Let's say £25m for those 4. If they stick another £50m in the pot that's £125m.

From an FFP perspective, the major cost would be amortisation so spending £125m would 'cost' them £25m a year over 5 years. But they'd get most of that back in wage reductions so there would be minimal impact on their finances.
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Thanks for that PB.

It`s just something i have never thought about, as i just automatically assumed with them being such a big club (global brand) etc that would never be an issue for them.
 
Henkeman said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...t-a-period-of-transition-at-Old-Trafford.html

Now bear in mind this is Ferguson's ghost writer and United apologist extraordinaire Paul Hayward writing this article...oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
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i know a lot wanted them to win on here today but the downfall at the swamp has to be executed quick or they will dig a hole out, if they finnish in the top 4 they will be able to attract top players and more likely a decent manager, at the moment there in freefall with no players available to quick fix so likely to miss out on the top 4 then they will be shafted on all fronts from signing players to getting the right man in, there crowds will plumit as the cockneys wont be renewing, the missed revenue from the champions lge will have a knock on effect and the shares will become worth peanuts, it has to be this season they miss out or they will be there up at the top for years to come
 
Henkeman said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...t-a-period-of-transition-at-Old-Trafford.html

Now bear in mind this is Ferguson's ghost writer and United apologist extraordinaire Paul Hayward writing this article...oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
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By Paul Hayward, Chief Sports Writer at Stamford Bridge8:33PM GMT 19 Jan 2014
You can argue all you like about the ability of David Moyes, but it is crystal clear that his squad need rebuilding from top to bottom

The last time Manchester United surrendered the Premier League title was with almost the last kick of the 2011-2012 campaign.

This time the crown fell from their grip on Jan 19. They creep now into football’s off-Broadway production: the desperate race for fourth.

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It is all receding for United and David Moyes: the title, a Champions League place and the evolutionary principle laid down by Sir Alex Ferguson.

The FA Cup has gone too, at the third-round stage. Wednesday night brings a League Cup semi-final second leg, with United trailing Sunderland 2-1.

Failure to overcome that deficit would deprive them of a daunting Wembley final against Manchester City, who lead West Ham United 6-0.

This is not turbulence. This is about starting all over again.

The idea that United would pass like a well-kept Rolls-Royce from Ferguson to Moyes is now not worth even debating.

The most successful club of the past 20 years are not undergoing adjustment difficulties.

The removal of Ferguson’s managerial genius has exposed the team and the owners – the Glazer family – to merciless scrutiny.

There is no need to complicate what we see: too few players who can match the quality on show at City, Chelsea, Arsenal and increasingly Liverpool, who are six points clear of United in the fourth Champions League place.

City have scored 63 league goals to United’s 36.

Moyes’s men have the fewest points at this point in the calendar of any United team since the Premier League brought Year Zero to the English game.

City, on the other hand, have reached 100 goals in all competitions faster than any team since the league’s inception.

There is more. When Chelsea needed to replace the veteran (Samuel Eto’o) who forced a hat-trick past United’s disjointed defence they sent on Fernando Torres, a £50million striker.

When Jose Mourinho wanted to shut the game down he took the wrapping off Nemanja Matic, re-bought last week for £21million.

At City and Arsenal, too, the bench hums with talent.

In the absence of Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie – which would be grievous for any manager, any club – there is simply not the depth of talent in United’s squad to compensate for the upheaval of Ferguson standing down and Moyes needing time fully to appreciate United’s attacking tradition.

Confining the analysis to this 3-1 defeat, you would say United’s back four are not functioning as a single entity and are vulnerable to both pace and set-piece play.

In front of a fragile centre-back pairing Phil Jones often appears tactically confused and is not exerting any appreciable grip in the defensive midfield area, which places more strain on Michael Carrick.

On the right Antonio Valencia is combative but lacks a gift for the unexpected.

Ashley Young, meanwhile, contributes in flashes but is not consistently threatening, while Danny Welbeck is a level down from Rooney and Van Persie.

When an 18-year-old (Adnan Januzaj) is your lone conjurer the time has come to acknowledge a creativity deficit, especially when Shinji Kagawa, an unused substitute here, is not trusted against a Chelsea midfield which grew in number as the afternoon wore on.

Without their two top-class strikers, United are trying to close the gap on Arsenal and City with their most mediocre midfield in decades and two full-backs who invite opposition attacks.

There was one final indignity to come, even after Nemanja Vidic had been sent off for a foul that deserved no more than a caution, and Rafael had escaped a red card despite flying in on Gary Cahill with both feet off the ground.

What could possibly turn this Sunday afternoon in London from bad to unbearable?

Sympathy from Mourinho, is the answer.

In a faintly syrupy voice, Chelsea’s manager pointed out how well United had played for the first 20 minutes and said he “hoped” Moyes’s men would see off all comers in the race for the final Champions League spot.

No matter. United have long since passed the point where wagon circling and siege mentalities can hide the truth about the squad at their disposal.

Moyes has had a searchlight trained on his suitability for the job from the moment a drop in intensity in the side became apparent in his first weeks in charge.

That light will intensify as statistics are used like weapons against him. Example: in 48 away games as a manager Moyes has not beaten Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or United.

This kind of fact can assume an importance way out of proportion to its usefulness.

If his coaching zone sometimes lacks a clear voice and consistent direction – Steve Round appears for a while, then Phil Neville jumps up while Moyes sits down and contemplates – conclusions cannot be drawn until the new manager has had his chance to rebuild the squad.

Reconstruction is a collective duty, all the way up to the Glazers, who are now at the end of their extended break from fan disquiet.

Anger over United’s corporate debt is bound to flow their way again.

And supporters will not let them hide behind the interest they displayed in Gareth Bale, Cristiano Ronaldo and Cesc Fabregas last summer.

The point is that it all came to nought, while City bought well, Liverpool improved, Chelsea reclaimed Mourinho and Arsène Wenger’s jam tomorrow became jam today.

A combination of those factors has hit United with empire-shaking force.

The Moyes debate is subjective. The discussion about the players is not.

We saw at Chelsea an undeniable manpower shortage in a squad that stood at the pinnacle only 10 months ago.

But they have the financial might, the tradition and the know-how to treat this as a golden chance to start again.

The cost will be eye-watering.
 
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