United Thread 2014/15

[Ballet On Ice]

eventually the parasite kills the host. Glazius parasitum keeps sucking the life from the victim until all that remains is a husk. Not long now.

This is the Glaziers worst nightmare, since uncle Malcolm turned up his toes and went to be met in heaven by Mike and Neil, well they will buy him a beer.

They want to keep selling bits of the club off to like minded American families for loads of cash, but the club has to be a big enough cash cow to do this and attract the buyers.
Hence the panic buying now to get CL qualification with all the cash and the improved sponsorship.
If they can't buy success who knows what they will do to keep getting the cash beyond their management fees out of the club
They may cut their losses and sell shares at lower prices whilst screwing the club for as much annual fees as possible.
Either way it's panic time if they can't get CL next year.

 

[Allendintiers]

They can't even use the Glazer's are robbing us blind excuse any more. They have forked out a lot of dosh.The spending has been huge and indiscriminate, but that's another story. I would lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Ferguson and his "the transfer market is over-inflated and I am only going to sign twats like Ashley Young and DimitriBerbatov mentality.It was his mantra in the last few years of his reign of terror.

I think the absolute strength of the United team was hidden by the weakness of the Premiership. So relatively they were strong in a weak Premiership era, but the Premiership has grown stronger again. City and Chelsea actually have two very strong teams and the likes of Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool have improved too. It's a tougher league than in the last years of Ferguson now and I agree the lack of investment in that period is now starting to tell. Lots of players have been bought with no real plan for where to play them. If I was to name their five best players it would be Mata, Di Maria, De Gea, RVP and Rooney. What formation do you pick to get them all into the same team? Personally I think they need at the very least to get rid of either Rooney or RVP.

Good post, but I disagree.

United's team peaked in 2008, when we won the CL. That year the core of the team had an average age of 27. We also reached the CL final in 09 and 2011, so your statement about the PL being weak is nonsense. What really happened was all of our quality players who peaked in 2008 like Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick, alongside the experience of Scholes, Giggs, VDS...we didn't make any succession plans for them to be past it. We just watched it happen. And this can happen in any team. It is almost inconceivable for City fans to imagine Kompany losing a yard of pace, or Silva picking up injuries and losing his touch, but once they pass the age of 30 it happens. Unfortunately the only current method of replacing quality players like Vidic, Ferdinand or Yaya Toure is by having very deep pockets and spunking lots of dosh to fill the holes, but this is not a sustainable model, because it means that you have to revamp the squad every 5 years which costs a fuckload of dosh. Developing within is the only way forward, but not many clubs in England have been successful with this in the last 10 years, bar Southampton. Although they lost them as soon as they were decent.

 

[ifiwasarichfan]

They can't even use the Glazer's are robbing us blind excuse any more. They have forked out a lot of dosh.The spending has been huge and indiscriminate, but that's another story. I would lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Ferguson and his "the transfer market is over-inflated and I am only going to sign twats like Ashley Young and DimitriBerbatov mentality.It was his mantra in the last few years of his reign of terror.

I think the absolute strength of the United team was hidden by the weakness of the Premiership. So relatively they were strong in a weak Premiership era, but the Premiership has grown stronger again. City and Chelsea actually have two very strong teams and the likes of Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool have improved too. It's a tougher league than in the last years of Ferguson now and I agree the lack of investment in that period is now starting to tell. Lots of players have been bought with no real plan for where to play them. If I was to name their five best players it would be Mata, Di Maria, De Gea, RVP and Rooney. What formation do you pick to get them all into the same team? Personally I think they need at the very least to get rid of either Rooney or RVP.

Good post, but I disagree.

United's team peaked in 2008, when we won the CL. That year the core of the team had an average age of 27. We also reached the CL final in 09 and 2011, so your statement about the PL being weak is nonsense. What really happened was all of our quality players who peaked in 2008 like Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick, alongside the experience of Scholes, Giggs, VDS...we didn't make any succession plans for them to be past it. We just watched it happen. And this can happen in any team. It is almost inconceivable for City fans to imagine Kompany losing a yard of pace, or Silva picking up injuries and losing his touch, but once they pass the age of 30 it happens. Unfortunately the only current method of replacing quality players like Vidic, Ferdinand or Yaya Toure is by having very deep pockets and spunking lots of dosh to fill the holes, but this is not a sustainable model, because it means that you have to revamp the squad every 5 years which costs a fuckload of dosh. Developing within is the only way forward, but not many clubs in England have been successful with this in the last 10 years, bar Southampton. Although they lost them as soon as they were decent.

On the basis that he talks some sense in this last post at least; I have two questions for our new resident United fan:

1. What do you think of your transfer dealings so far this summer ?

2. With five days left and an unlimited "war chest" (allegedly !) where would you personally splash the cash if you were in charge to save what's left of your season ?

 

[Henkeman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-to-offload-Welbeck-Cleverley-and-Kagawa.html

On the phone, so copy and paste is a pain. Can anyone do the honours?

This would be complete chaos in the final week of the transfer window. The players won't know if they're coming or going (literally).

 

[supercrystal7]

They can't even use the Glazer's are robbing us blind excuse any more. They have forked out a lot of dosh.The spending has been huge and indiscriminate, but that's another story. I would lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Ferguson and his "the transfer market is over-inflated and I am only going to sign twats like Ashley Young and DimitriBerbatov mentality.It was his mantra in the last few years of his reign of terror.

I think the absolute strength of the United team was hidden by the weakness of the Premiership. So relatively they were strong in a weak Premiership era, but the Premiership has grown stronger again. City and Chelsea actually have two very strong teams and the likes of Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool have improved too. It's a tougher league than in the last years of Ferguson now and I agree the lack of investment in that period is now starting to tell. Lots of players have been bought with no real plan for where to play them. If I was to name their five best players it would be Mata, Di Maria, De Gea, RVP and Rooney. What formation do you pick to get them all into the same team? Personally I think they need at the very least to get rid of either Rooney or RVP.

Good post, but I disagree.

United's team peaked in 2008, when we won the CL. That year the core of the team had an average age of 27. We also reached the CL final in 09 and 2011, so your statement about the PL being weak is nonsense. What really happened was all of our quality players who peaked in 2008 like Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick, alongside the experience of Scholes, Giggs, VDS...we didn't make any succession plans for them to be past it. We just watched it happen. And this can happen in any team. It is almost inconceivable for City fans to imagine Kompany losing a yard of pace, or Silva picking up injuries and losing his touch, but once they pass the age of 30 it happens. Unfortunately the only current method of replacing quality players like Vidic, Ferdinand or Yaya Toure is by having very deep pockets and spunking lots of dosh to fill the holes, but this is not a sustainable model, because it means that you have to revamp the squad every 5 years which costs a fuckload of dosh. Developing within is the only way forward, but not many clubs in England have been successful with this in the last 10 years, bar Southampton. Although they lost them as soon as they were decent.

I agree the team peaked in 2008/2009, but I don't think the CL final in 2011 means much. You had an easy draw and were thumped in the final. It's a bit like saying Chelsea winning the CL in 2012 meant the Premiership or even that Chelsea team were strong.

I agree you continued to play the old players and substandard players like Young, Valencia, etc to replace the likes of Tevez, Ronaldo and just kept playing the old guard. The reason you remained successful was the weakness of the Premiership for me. Despite the outlier in 2011 you failed to make it to another semi final and even went out in the group stage. During the same period of time Arsenal repeatedly went out in the 2nd round, Tottenham once got to the quarter, City were new to the competition and struggled to get out of the group, whilst Chelsea too were poor apart from when they pulled off 2012.

The only way of keeping your squad at a high level is not necessarily to keep splashing money. If the club plans well and can develop youth they can then buy promising players and bleed them through. Bayern and Juventus have managed to have great success without spending huge amounts. In the Premiership, despite not being successful Arsenal have continuously replaced top quality players by smart scouting and good training. Nasri, Clichy and RVP are just some of the players they managed to keep bringing through for cheap.

Whilst Young, Valencia and Berbatov may never have had the quality to become top players; United have failed to bring on Nani, Smalling, Jones, Anderson and Kagawa. That's just as big a reason for the current situation as the failure to splash out occasionally on truly world class players.

 

[Allendintiers]

I think the absolute strength of the United team was hidden by the weakness of the Premiership. So relatively they were strong in a weak Premiership era, but the Premiership has grown stronger again. City and Chelsea actually have two very strong teams and the likes of Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool have improved too. It's a tougher league than in the last years of Ferguson now and I agree the lack of investment in that period is now starting to tell. Lots of players have been bought with no real plan for where to play them. If I was to name their five best players it would be Mata, Di Maria, De Gea, RVP and Rooney. What formation do you pick to get them all into the same team? Personally I think they need at the very least to get rid of either Rooney or RVP.

Good post, but I disagree.

United's team peaked in 2008, when we won the CL. That year the core of the team had an average age of 27. We also reached the CL final in 09 and 2011, so your statement about the PL being weak is nonsense. What really happened was all of our quality players who peaked in 2008 like Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick, alongside the experience of Scholes, Giggs, VDS...we didn't make any succession plans for them to be past it. We just watched it happen. And this can happen in any team. It is almost inconceivable for City fans to imagine Kompany losing a yard of pace, or Silva picking up injuries and losing his touch, but once they pass the age of 30 it happens. Unfortunately the only current method of replacing quality players like Vidic, Ferdinand or Yaya Toure is by having very deep pockets and spunking lots of dosh to fill the holes, but this is not a sustainable model, because it means that you have to revamp the squad every 5 years which costs a fuckload of dosh. Developing within is the only way forward, but not many clubs in England have been successful with this in the last 10 years, bar Southampton. Although they lost them as soon as they were decent.

On the basis that he talks some sense in this last post at least; I have two questions for our new resident United fan:

1. What do you think of your transfer dealings so far this summer ?

2. With five days left and an unlimited "war chest" (allegedly !) where would you personally splash the cash if you were in charge to save what's left of your season ?

1) Very odd transfer dealings so far. We paid alot of money for Shaw who is a good young player, so in terms of return on investment I think he will come good. The whole thing about Van Gaal giving him a public dressing down has something more to it IMO. All character building for an 18/19 year old lad. Herrera is a good player, but I don't know why it took so long. He completely ripped us a new one when he played for Bilboa in both legs, then we 'scouted' him for 2 years before making a bid. I like him and he pisses all over Cleverley and Fletcher. I only saw Rojo in the WC, as did LVG who wanted him. From what I've seen he is good on the ball and likes to bring the ball out of defense and have a dig. The polar opposite to Evans and Smalling who can't get rid of the ball quick enough. Di Maria is a big surprise, and he will lift the squad, but most of all inject some pace into the side. I think he will bring out the best in RVP with his delivery and assists, also Mata plays well with runners ahead of him. Currently we are too stagnant in the final 3rd.

2) The stuff about Vidal's knee being a Hargreaves part 2 worries me. And the fee will be astronomical. It could be the greatest signing ever, or the biggest disaster since Madrid paid 60 million for Kaka. If there is a playing it safe option, I would bring in William Carvalho AND Nigel De Jong as back up. I cannot see any clubs parting with their best central defenders with only days of the window left, so I would do a straight swap with Villa for Ron Vlarr and give them Wellbeck and promote Wilson to the first team. But if the last few days is anything to go by, anything could happen? It's like spinning a roulette wheel.

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

Surely fans of any club like to see Academy lads making the grade at their clubs, playing for years and becoming successful.

What i dont want to see is a first team full or half-full of Academy lads who are not good enough (and never going to be) simply in the team because the club is being mis-managed- thats what is happening at the swamp. I cannot think of one of those kids who played last night who would be good enough to play in our team- the champions.

By the way i hope rags only debate and dont decide to join us- i saw one that ive known (by sight not socially of course) for 30 years (ex scoreboard paddock tosser) walking through Prestwich with one of our shirts on the other week, nearly friggin threw up.

Christ, I nearly expectorated this cheeky little pinotage I'm drinking on reading that. Let's hope and pray it's a one-off.

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

wouldnt you think he,d play luke shaw in this match to get some fitness?? whats going on ?

Apparently he travelled with them but they lost sight of him at one of the burger vans outside the stadium.

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-to-offload-Welbeck-Cleverley-and-Kagawa.html

On the phone, so copy and paste is a pain. Can anyone do the honours?

This would be complete chaos in the final week of the transfer window. The players won't know if they're coming or going (literally).

Manchester United are preparing to thwart Arsenal's attempts to sign William Carvalho after renewing interest in the £24  million-rated Sporting Lisbon midfielder.

With United due to formally unveil £59.7m British record signing Ángel di María at a press conference at Old Trafford on Thursday, Louis van Gaal, the manager, is now pressing Ed Woodward, the club's executive vice-chairman, into securing at least one new midfielder before Monday's transfer deadline.
After witnessing his team's Capital One Cup humiliation against MK Dons on Tuesday, Van Gaal has also instructed Woodward to find buyers for the likes of Javier Hernández, Anderson and Shinji Kagawa before close of business at 11pm Monday.

The England internationals Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley, who are understood to be the subject of interest from several clubs, will also be allowed to leave Old Trafford if suitable offers are made for the pair.

Despite the abject display of his fringe players in Milton Keynes, Van Gaal had made it a priority to bolster his midfield options during the final days of the transfer window. But with the Dutch coach and senior figures at United still unconvinced by the fitness of the Juventus midfielder Arturo Vidal following pre-World Cup knee surgery, Carvalho has re-emerged as a target after being watched on a regular basis by the club's scouting team last season.


The former United manager David Moyes had shortlisted Carvalho as a priority target before being sacked in the closing weeks of last season, but with Sporting initially demanding that the 22-year-old's £37m release clause was met by potential buyers, United and Van Gaal chose to pursue other options.
With issues about Vidal's knee yet to be resolved, Van Gaal is continuing to contemplate a move for AC Milan's Nigel de Jong while retaining an interest in the AS Roma midfielder Kevin Strootman, who is close to returning to action following a cruciate ligament injury.

However, with Sporting now prepared to lower their asking price after seeing Real Madrid drop their initial interest in Carvalho earlier this summer, United believe a deal can be done for the Angola-born defensive midfielder, who was one of the few shining lights of Portugal's unsuccessful World Cup campaign in Brazil.

United were made aware of Sporting's readiness to listen to offers for Carvalho during negotiations with Di María's representatives, who also act for Carvalho. Having already done business with the Portuguese club this summer by completing the signing of the defender Marcos Rojo at the same time as allowing Nani to return to the club on loan, further discussions are understood to have taken place over Carvalho.

Attempts to sign the Holland midfielder Daley Blind from Ajax could prove more difficult, however, with the Dutch club insisting that they have no desire to sell the 24-year-old during this transfer window. But Marc Overmars, the Ajax director of football, kept alive the prospect of a sale by claiming that only a “top price” would persuade the Amsterdam club to sell. "We believe that we currently have a strong team and want Daley to stay for another year," Overmars told De Telegraaf. "Only if the absolute top price is paid is a transfer negotiable.

"Daley's management know how we feel at the moment. Next year, we will have a much more lenient policy, we are willing to talk with Daley and we will settle for a reasonable price."

While United continue to seek reinforcements following their dismal start to the season – which is their worst opening since the 1992/93 campaign – efforts to reduce the size of Van Gaal's squad will accelerate in the coming days.

The Capital One Cup exit ensures that United can only play a maximum number of 49 matches this season, should they reach the FA Cup final and require replays in every round until the semi-finals.

With only Premier League games to focus on until the FA Cup third round in January, Van Gaal is prepared to work a squad of no more than 20 players, leaving Hernández, Kagawa, Anderson, Cleverley and Welbeck available for transfer.

United are also ready to offload goalkeeper Anders Lindegaard, with the futures of Rafael da Silva and Ashley Young by no means certain at Old Trafford. Wilfried Zaha was last night close to rejoining Crystal Palace on loan, with a view to a permanent move to the London club.

The ankle injury which has left Marouane Fellaini on the sidelines, albeit for no longer than a month, has ensured a stay of execution for the £27.5m Belgian midfielder.

It is understood that as many as six clubs are interested in signing Welbeck, including Sunderland, Hull City and Newcastle, but United have yet to be contacted by Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal, despite both clubs seeking attacking reinforcements.

Cleverley, who is out of contract at the end of this season, is also attracting substantial interest, but the 25-year-old player may yet choose to run down his contract and leave on a free transfer next summer.

United have been contacted by a number of European clubs about Hernández and Kagawa, but there has been no interest in the Brazilian midfielder Anderson, who made his first appearance for the club in nine months during the defeat on Tuesday in Milton Keynes.

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

So rag you said you had 10 academy players and i said you were wrong

you came back and said there were nine

in actual fact there were SIX and some subbed others

You haven't a fucking clue about your own team

All of those players played for the academy, bought or not. I didn't say anything about finding them in a park in Stretford? If you buy someone and play them in the EDS team do they not exist or count? Seems a strange set of rules to live by?

This is Pereira,Vermil and Januzij with the fa youth cup 2 years ago.

Jizjaz has been at your horrible brand for 2 fucking years haha!!

Players start playing At academy's at the age of 5 not 16/17.

He's is not a product from your academy. He's just a young player you have bought.