US Politics Thread

[Dax777]

My advice for any new participants in the thread attempting to engage in earnest debate with Dax:

Never argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Says the fool.

 

[moomba]

She led the disastrous border debacle the last 31/2 years.

That's the one thing she ran

By the way, when I say a white guy is incompetent (which I do often) would you ask me for evidence supporting my opinion? Or is this request for evidence only required when im NOT talking about a white guy or a conservative.

In that case, what does this say about your values? Have you ever considered that?

If you say a white guy is incompetent you'll say he is incompetent. You won't feel the need to point out his race and sex like you do with Harris.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I think he's ok. At least he puts a different view, without him we'd have the following:

Trump thread = everyone hates trump
Harris thread = everyone hates trump
US politics thread = everyone hates trump

They could be merged into one big performative 'we hate trump's thread if it wasn't for Dax and bigga. They at least have something to say instead of the usual mutual back slapping followed by shock when trump is not imprisoned or is elected again.
Worth noting that extremism comes about when people are only exposed to one viewpoint, not just extremist views. I like these threads because I get to see blind support for both Harris and occasionally the trump for balance.

I’d say American extremism comes about when people go looking for excuses and/or solutions for their miserable fucked up lives, or their lives actually are miserable and fucked up and they have no alternatives other than anarchical solutions, not when people are “exposed to one viewpoint.” In fact, I’d argue they’ve looked at all viewpoints and none offers the immediate, all encompassing revenge on those who have wronged them other than extremism.

In the case of those two hobos, one of them isn’t even American, and I assure you neither has had it so bad they’d ever join the French Underground or the SERPAJ. In fact, they are broadly supportive of a would-be autocrat because they crave being made part of a power base which they are not and have never been a part of, probably for good reason. I’ve said it a million times: they are here to own the libs for whatever reason — and that’s the GOP’s ONLY platform plank. It’s a perfect fit.

I’d suggest the reason these threads are so one-sided is simply because Trump has demonstrated so overwhelmingly and convincingly that he is manifestly unfit for office, that fear of and revulsion to him have raised the collective hackles of even casual observers and drawn them here. As I’ve tried to explain multiple times, I’ve voted for many Republicans in the past, but I despise and loathe Trump to the point of illness, and have since the 1980s when I was part of one of his real estate deals and saw what he was. I’m not the biggest Harris fan, but by all accounts she’s a normal American politician and Trump isn’t. I assure you were Romney or Kacich or some other GOPer the candidate, I might be here chatting, but not hating, and not arguing, and only involved periodically, which I think is true for most of us, though maybe not all.

What bothers me is that those who argue about this being an echo chamber don’t seem to stop to think about why it is. And it is, simply, because all of us are right about Trump, and have been all along, and we are all frightened. And of course, those two pigeons have never frightened anyone in their real lives (or used to and don’t anymore maybe), are almost assuredly short friends and short respect, so they enjoy how frightened we are. Do you think either one gives a fuck about anyone here? I’ve made real friends here who I’ve met when I’ve come over to Manchester — this place has value beyond merely being an “echo chamber” so to hear it described thusly devalues it. And they devalue it. And if the smarter one of the two of them is merely on the WU, which I’ve always slightly suspected, he devalues it even more.

Finally, neutrals and Trumpers may not like how smug me saying we’ve all been right sounds, but nothing else appears to be able to get that through the thick as fuck skulls here, despite overwhelming evidence, so I don’t really give a fuck if it sounds smug.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I’d say American extremism comes about when people go looking for excuses and/or solutions for their miserable fucked up lives, or their lives actually are miserable and fucked up and they have no alternatives other than anarchical solutions, not when people are “exposed to one viewpoint.” In fact, I’d argue they’ve looked at all viewpoints and none offers the immediate, all encompassing revenge on those who have wronged them other than extremism.

In the case of those two hobos, one of them isn’t even American, and I assure you neither has had it so bad they’d ever join the French Underground or the SERPAJ. In fact, they are broadly supportive of a would-be autocrat because they crave being made part of a power base which they are not and have never been a part of, probably for good reason. I’ve said it a million times: they are here to own the libs; it’s the GOP’s ONLY platform plank.

I’d suggest the reason these threads are so one-sided is simply because Trump has demonstrated so overwhelmingly and convincingly that he is manifestly unfit for office, that fear of and revulsion to him have raised the collective hackles of even casual observers and drawn them here. As I’ve tried to explain multiple times, I’ve voted for many Republicans in the past, but I despise and loathe Trump to the point of illness, and have since the 1980s when I was part of one of his real estate deals and saw what he was. I’m not the biggest Harris fan, but by all accounts she’s a normal American politician and Trump isn’t. I assure you were Romney or Kacich or some other GOPer the candidate, I might be here chatting, but not hating, and not arguing, and only involved periodically, which I think is true for most of us, though maybe not all.

What bothers me is that those who argue about this being an echo chamber don’t seem to stop to think about why it is. And it is, simply, because all of us are right about Trump, and have been all along, and we are all frightened. And of course, the two pigeons have never frightened anyone in their real lives, are almost assuredly short friends and short respect, so they enjoy how frightened we are. Do you think either one gives a fuck about anyone here? I’ve made real friends here who I’ve met when I’ve come over to Manchester — this place has value beyond merely being an “echo chamber” so to hear it described thusly devalues it.

Finally, neutrals and Trumpers may not like how smug me saying we’ve all been right sounds, but nothing else appears to be able to get that through the thick as fuck skulls here, despite overwhelming evidence, so I don’t really give a fuck if it sounds smug.

It doesn't sound smug, it just sounds like you have reached the end of your ability to think critically and express yourself intelligently. Not meant as an insult btw as I know you are capable of both but are genuinely frustrated by the situation

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It doesn't sound smug, it just sounds like you have reached the end of your ability to think critically and express yourself intelligently. Not meant as an insult btw as I know you are capable of both but are genuinely frustrated by the situation

What else is there to say, really? We’re on the the ninth goddamn motherfucking year of this, since he walked down that escalator. What other argument should I be listening to and thinking about? I’ve heard them all. And nearly every new argument is “Kamala bad.” FFS — even Trump doesn’t have any new arguments for himself!

 

[SebastianBlue]

What else is there to say, really? We’re on the the ninth goddamn motherfucking year of this, since he walked down that escalator. What other argument should I be listening to and thinking about? I’ve heard them all.

He’s just here to wear you down, mate, not have a good faith debate based on facts and reality.

I used to think it was because he was ignorant, but he has shown that is not the case over the last few months. He rejects evidence and logic over and over again, instead most often responding with false equivalence, incoherent ramblings, half-truths or outright lies, and—as you have seen here—insults and wind ups that skirt the CoC in just the right ways to avoid any actual accountability.

He says the political forum is not important, and belittles those that take the discussions seriously, whilst constantly posting in these political threads. And, as you said, he devalues the forum more generally, ironically failing to see the immense value it represents for different people in different circumstances.

As they say, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. And like Trump, he has told us time and again that he is a bad faith actor, at these in the Political Forum.

All of this is to ask, do think there is really anything to be gained by engaging with someone that responded to an earnest and reasoned post by saying you have “reached the end of your ability to think critically and express yourself intelligently” because you disagree with him and called him out on his rhetoric and behaviour?

His goal is very obviously to wind up and wear down any rational, sane, anti-Trump participant of the thread. All of his equivocations and excuses are easily seen through bullshit.

Responding at all just feeds the troll.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

He’s just here to wear you down, mate, not have a good faith debate based on facts and reality.

I used to think it was because he was ignorant, but he has shown that is not the case over the last few months. He rejects evidence and logic over and over again, instead most often responding with false equivalence, incoherent ramblings, half-truths or outright lies, and—as you have seen here—insults and wind ups that skirt the CoC in just the right ways to avoid any actual accountability.

He says the political forum is not important, and belittles those that take the discussions seriously, whilst constantly posting in these political threads. And, as you said, he devalues the forum more generally, ironically failing to see the immense value it represents for different people in different circumstances.

As they say, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. And like Trump, he has told us time and again that he is a bad faith actor, at these in the Political Forum.

All of this is to ask, do think there is really anything to be gained by engaging with someone that responded to an earnest and reasoned post by saying you have “reached the end of your ability to think critically and express yourself intelligently” because you disagree with him and called him out on his rhetoric and behaviour?

His goal is very obviously to wind up and wear down any rational, sane, anti-Trump participant of the thread. All of his equivocations and excuses are easily seen through bullshit.

Responding at all just feeds the troll.

It’s okay — I really just wanted to say what I wanted to say and the questions at hand were good jumping-off points. He’s evidenced no love for Trump (the opposite periodically), once in a while has a real question in an attempt to understand further, and even the shit-stirring is boredom and misanthropy which is more irritating than angering, at least to me. Had a college roommate who was a lot like him so maybe it’s not as bad for me. IOW, I know the difference between someone I’d call a **** and someone who is one. When he is one, as opposed to acting like one, I’ve gotten proper shirty and he’s deserved it. He’d say same of me, probably. In this case though I wanted to explain why we all agree — it’s because we’re right, and frightened. I know we’re right, and the two assclowns (and Maz) know it too — only the other two knobs try to play to our fear. We’re so right it feels stupid to even say it out loud in fact.

 

[KS55]

She led the disastrous border debacle the last 31/2 years.

That's the one thing she ran

By the way, when I say a white guy is incompetent (which I do often) would you ask me for evidence supporting my opinion? Or is this request for evidence only required when im NOT talking about a white guy or a conservative.

In that case, what does this say about your values? Have you ever considered that?

See, here’s the problem with you. Harris did not run the border, that is made up by Trump. She was put in charge of negotiating with govs in central and South America in an effort to get them to stop the caravans etc. Research that.
As for your next point, this is typical of you: distraction by accusation and you even manage to answer your own question with a conclusion about my values. The answer is yes, in the same circumstances I would ask for evidence irrespective of the skin of the person under discussion.
What race do you think I am?

 

[SebastianBlue]

It’s okay — I really just wanted to say what I wanted to say and the questions at hand were good jumping-off points. He’s evidenced no love for Trump (the opposite periodically), once in a while has a real question in an attempt to understand further, and even the shit-stirring is boredom and misanthropy which is more irritating than angering, at least to me. Had a college roommate who was a lot like him so maybe it’s not as bad. IOW, I know the difference between someone I’d call a **** and someone who is one. When he is one, as opposed to acting like one, I’ve gotten proper shirty and he’s deserved it. He’d say same of me, probably. In this case though I wanted to explain why we all agree — it’s because we’re right, and frightened. I know we’re right, and the two assclowns (and Maz) know it too — only they try to play to our fear. We’re so right it feels stupid to even say it out loud in fact.

It may indeed be because of your college roommate that you are far more tolerant of his behaviour.

Or it could just be that you have far more time left and so entertaining people acting in bad faith is less of a drain on your precious resources. And you undoubtedly have more of a life outside of the forum (and a few others) than I do, for obvious reasons, so this is just generally less bothersome.

In any case, your assessment of his behaviour in these threads is, by my estimation, exceedingly generous.

Oh, and I disagree that he has actually shown a dislike for Trump—his overall approach to him does not give the impression of a detractor, despite throwaway comments here and there. He is very much of the Bigga “feigned dislike” variety in my view. He is just far more deliberate about it (usually laying it on thick when people start to pick up on the general undercurrents of his statements and “I am just asking questions” posts).

All of that said, you are a saint and a gentlemen for humouring him.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It may indeed be because of your college roommate that you are far more tolerant of his behaviour.

Or it could just be that you have far more time left and so entertaining people acting in bad faith is less of a drain on your precious resources.

Either way, your assessment of his behaviour in these threads is, by my estimation, exceedingly generous.

And that is a fair assessment.

I am not long for this thread — at some point next year I will need to cease commentary on politics and stick to football and music whatever happens in November — so I’m getting my licks in. There are certain topics on other threads I do not address out of professional obligation/rules despite having what I think is value to add.