US Politics Thread

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But we're the greatest country in the world, just follow us!!!!

Honestly, I'm fucking embarrassed as hell.
Everyone should be angry as hell.

They are coming for gay sex and marriage next, and they won’t stop there.

They are going to work to overturn any federal or state law — or established precedent — that contravenes evangical Christian doctrine using entirely arbitrary "leave it to the states" / “it can't be left to the states" judicial decisions built upon truly insane originalist interpretations of the constitution, destroying the rights of women, minorities, and LGTBQ+ people.

This is a slow-motion coup d'etat by the far-right under the guise of an "independent" judiciary.
 
But unfortunately, this isn't one of your better write-ups. I sensed ( and I could be wrong) a whif of disdain for fundamentalist types and their arguments, that caused you to not put a similar level of effort into the analysis to this writeup as you have to those of your many other write-ups in the past.

It's a lot more than a whiff. I have nothing but contempt for the religious right and have done ever since the period of Reagan and Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority.

The reason that I went for Biblical passages is because I was thinking about the fundamentalist mindset. It was only when Megan Phelps-Roper (formerly of the notorious Westboro Baptist Church) faced theological challenges from those she was engaging with on Twitter that she began to question her own interpretations of many key Biblical teachings. So this might be the place to start if you are dealing with someone who believes that the Bible is essentially a piece of dictation from God and therefore inerrant.

Additionally, I find it disgusting that so much of the glee felt by right-wingers over this (at least from what I've seen on social media and Youtube clips) is merely about "owning the libs".

I am also reminded that we have been here before. Back in 2005, Hurricane Katrina struck the city of New Orleans in Louisiana with devastating effects. Many pro-life Christians were exultant. They saw this natural disaster as a punishment from God because Louisiana has 10 abortion clinics and 5 are in New Orleans. The shape of the Hurricane was also compared to a 6 week old fetus.

Malise Ruthven once wrote very perceptively about this constituency, observing that Christian fundamentalists...

‘...have had a baleful influence on American foreign policy, by tilting it towards the Jewish state, which they eventually aim to obliterate by converting righteous Jews to Christ. They have damaged the education of American children in some places by adding scientific creationism, or its successor ‘intelligent design’ to the curriculum. They inconvenience some women, especially poor women with limited access to travel by making abortion illegal in certain states. On a planetary level, they are selfish, greedy and stupid, damaging the environment by the excessive use of energy and lobbying against environmental controls. What is the point of saving the planet, they argue, if Jesus is arriving tomorrow?'

Ruthven's book dates from 2004 but his points still hold.

Those aforementioned 'poor women' will presumably now need to travel out of state to get a termination.

A few years ago, I watched a BBC documentary about abortion in Ireland. A girl from a poor background had been raped by one of her own relatives and become pregnant. Given that it was impossible for her to procure an abortion and her immediate community was a religious one, she was able to seek help from a charity that helped her to covertly travel to London to have her pregnancy aborted. I suppose it is possible that organisations might now spring up in the USA for the same purpose. There should be no need for them.

I also recall that when the famous Victorian philosopher John Stuart Mill was just 17, he was on his way to work one morning in 1823 when he found a dead, newly born baby lying beneath a tree. The infant had been strangled. This was no surprise. London at the time was full of poor families who could not support another child. I expect that we will see more of this too.

Lastly, here is Carol Sanger writing about the immediate aftermath of Roe v Wade in her quite outstanding book About Abortion: Terminating Pregnancy in Twenty-First-Century America (Sanger is a Professor of Law at Columbia Law School and it might be worth Googling her name in connection with this issue to see what observations she has been making about this decision)) :

'There was...a massive decline in maternal mortality and obstetric injury. Thirty-nine illegal abortion deaths were reported in 1972, nineteen in 1973, and three in 1975; emergency rooms saw far fewer cases of sepsis and uterine perforation from illegal abortions. All this shows how differently women were able to proceed with their lives on account of the decision in Roe v. Wade.'

Expect that 'massive decline' to now be reversed.
 
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Yes I have seen that, but that’s one extreme view, now removed I believe. The fact is that most anti-abortionists have their opinion from a religious standpoint and in the UK over 55% (2020) of the population express having no faith whatsoever. It’s half that in the US (2019). Additionally the UK religious and their leaders are far less fanatical on such matters.

We just don’t have such a ridiculous political system.

Very sad day and I can’t imagine what some women are going through right now.
I watched the news report in disbelief seeing young women celebrating the ruling. Some actually screaming for joy.

What the actual is going on there?
 
I'm going to keep this on current topic and I'm going to say I support a woman's right for autonomy, but I'm going to be impartial for argument's sakes here and take the dumb religious argument out of it:

Outside of rape and a danger to a woman's life as well as depending on the State laws on the following, there are many many forms of contraception to prevent pregnancy. In fact, I believe, for women in the US, there are over 20 forms for this.

The question is, does this decision force men and women to be more responsible in engaging in sexual activity to avoid the abortion situation?

Think about this; in one small survey of a section of demographic there are, apparently, 400 such abortions a day. That must be a mistake, but there's a lot of partisan reporting of figures I've seen.

Here's an interesting article on the rates Where the True Data is Unclear...

Again, the question being, does this force responsibility?
 
I watched the news report in disbelief seeing young women celebrating the ruling. Some actually screaming for joy.

What the actual is going on there?

I don't think those women will ever be at risk of needing an abortion mate.
 
The problem is that most who are fundamentalists of one stripe or the other don't recognize it in themselves.

Megan Phelps-Roper (formerly of the Westboro Baptist Church) touches on this issue in her extraordinary book Unfollow :

'At Westboro, any admission that we might be wrong about any doctrine was accompanied by intense shame and fear. If we reversed course on any issue, we did so quietly, never admitting publicly to our mistakes. From our point of view, acknowledging error and ignorance was anathema, because doing so would cast doubt on our message.

While I engaged church members as an outsider, I started to understand that doubt was the point – that it was the most basic shift in how I experienced the world. Doubt was nothing more than epistemological humility: a deep and practical awareness that outside our sphere of knowledge there existed information and experiences that might show our position to be in error.

Doubt causes us to hold a strong position a bit more loosely, such that an acknowledgement of ignorance or error doesn’t crush our sense of self or leave us totally unmoored if our position proves untenable. Certainty is the opposite: it hampers enquiry and hinders growth. It teaches us to ignore evidence that contradicts our ideas, and encourages us to defend our position at all costs, even as it reveals itself as indefensible. Certainty sees compromise as weak, hypocritical, evil, suppressing empathy and allowing us to justify inflicting horrible pain on others.

Doubt wasn’t the sin, I came to believe. It was the arrogance of certainty that poisoned Westboro at its foundations.’
 
A distinct lack of class, empathy, individual thought?
The 'right' to cut up an embryo and hoover out the bits is one which l would decline if l was a woman. Hardly a reason for joy.
Even worse is the 'right' claimed by the more extreme ones that insist the time frame should extend right up to the day before birth takes place.
Ugh. Revolting
 
The 'right' to cut up an embryo and hoover out the bits is one which l would decline if l was a woman. Hardly a reason for joy.
Even worse is the 'right' claimed by the more extreme ones that insist the time frame should extend right up to the day before birth takes place.
Ugh. Revolting
Women who didn’t want to be pregnant should have stayed in the kitchen, right?
 
The 'right' to cut up an embryo and hoover out the bits is one which l would decline if l was a woman. Hardly a reason for joy.
Even worse is the 'right' claimed by the more extreme ones that insist the time frame should extend right up to the day before birth takes place.
Ugh. Revolting
I assure you if you were a woman, no guy would wanna fuck you.
 
The 'right' to cut up an embryo and hoover out the bits is one which l would decline if l was a woman. Hardly a reason for joy.
Even worse is the 'right' claimed by the more extreme ones that insist the time frame should extend right up to the day before birth takes place.
Ugh. Revolting
No surprise that this is your opinion and no surprise you’re trying to extend the discussion to late term abortions which no one wants.
 

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