US Politics Thread

[Mr Kobayashi]

There have been a few secession calls in California too, from both left (the entire state) and right (the State of Jefferson movement).

Based mostly on greed though isn't it?

Similar sentiments in Catalonia and Northern Italy (Padania movement).

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Agree 100% but the only thing I'll add..

He's powerless to stop it thanks to the "stacked deck" you mentioned.

Of course.

I fear Biden doesn't have the fight for it and a second term?

For me, the scary prospect is no viable alternative to step forward and stop these pricks from stacking the deck further in their favour?

Perhaps Michelle can run and ask her hubby to be VP!!

Harris is an open goal for Trump, Pence and that gimp from Florida?

 

[Gabriel]

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Based mostly on greed though isn't it?

Similar sentiments in Catalonia and Northern Italy (Padania movement).

The left's secession idea (which is convoluted and embryonic, and probably not very serious) is a function of the rightward swing in national politics and the right's is largely rural areas tired of paying CA taxes for urban infrastructure (and problems) and feeling much more akin politically to eastern Oregon and/or Idaho.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Of course.

I fear Biden doesn't have the fight for it and a second term?

For me, the scary prospect is no viable alternative to step forward and stop these pricks from stacking the deck further in their favour?

Perhaps Michelle can run and ask her hubby to be VP!!

Harris is an open goal for Trump, Pence and that gimp from Florida?

The Rock is the only currently-obvious semi-unifying candidate the nation has. Chew on that for a bit! Of course candidates can come out of nowhere. I do think the chances Biden runs again are fading and I never thought they were that high to begin with. I've no sense of who it will be for Democrats. Buttigieg maybe? I still think it'll be DeSantis ("that gimp") for the GOP.

 

[Bigga]

Many can say what they want about Biden, but he is an inherently good man who must despair that after reaching such a grand old age, has seen his country move so far backwards.

Today's version, maybe so...



There's loads on his previous stance before changing his mind was a vote winner.

Same with Obama on same sex marriage before he changed his mind.

They don't always start out as 'good people'.

 

[Bigga]

The Rock is the only currently-obvious semi-unifying candidate the nation has. Chew on that for a bit! Of course candidates can come out of nowhere. I do think the chances Biden runs again are fading and I never thought they were that high to begin with. I've no sense of who it will be for Democrats. Buttigieg maybe? I still think it'll be DeSantis ("that gimp") for the GOP.

Personally, I think high on chances will be another non-politician in the running; Marianne Williamson.

As the left voter has faltered over supporting Sanders with what they see as a betrayal, I think she'll take that space he left, choosing to back Biden who's tanking big time.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Strange times.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Today's version, maybe so...



There's loads on his previous stance before changing his mind was a vote winner.

Same with Obama on same sex marriage before he changed his mind.

They don't always start out as 'good people'.

Strange people.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Personally, I think high on chances will be another non-politician in the running; Marianne Williamson.

As the left voter has faltered over supporting Sanders with what they see as a betrayal, I think she'll take that space he left, choosing to back Biden who's tanking big time.

You never know. I recall Carter being an utter nobody in 76 — he had no shot. It will be interesting. Maybe this time blue voters galvanize around a progressive candidate instead of a moderate. They very well might. I very well might. I contrast AOC’s response to Pelosi’s to Dobbs and I can see how AOC’s would be far more likely to be inspirational to women and young people.

But that’s 2024. I do think Dobbs is going to create the potential for a big blue turnout in the midterms — I just don’t know if it happens where it matters or if it’s enough in the face of a weakening economy with inflation, which Biden will bear the brunt of no matter how anyone lays the blame.

 

[Bigga]

You never know. I recall Carter being an utter nobody in 76 — he had no shot. It will be interesting. Maybe this time blue voters galvanize around a progressive candidate instead of a moderate. They very well might. I very well might. I contrast AOC’s response to Pelosi’s to Dobbs and I can see how AOC’s would be far more likely to be inspirational to women and young people.

But that’s 2024. I do think Dobbs is going to create the potential for a big blue turnout in the midterms — I just don’t know if it happens where it matters or if it’s enough in the face of a weakening economy with inflation, which Biden will bear the brunt of no matter how anyone lays the blame.

I think your outward assessment is correct, even if you're hedging your thoughts on it.

There is no getting out of this almost inevitable recession under a Dem administration willing to send billions abroad whilst hard times hit your country after some crazy ill thought out political decisions that have ended up in a self chokehold.

The sheer audacity of hoping this 'single issue' is enough to bring out a 'blue wave' against all that is a re-run of something to vote against, not for.

It's a really weak strategy, but something that might have had better effect closer to the time. This will slide back in the order of importance to other situations.

I will be extremely surprised if the GOP don't end up in control.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I think your outward assessment is correct, even if you're hedging your thoughts on it.

There is no getting out of this almost inevitable recession under a Dem administration willing to send billions abroad whilst hard times hit your country after some crazy ill thought out political decisions that have ended up in a self chokehold.

The sheer audacity of hoping this 'single issue' is enough to bring out a 'blue wave' against all that is a re-run of something to vote against, not for.

It's a really weak strategy, but something that might have had better effect closer to the time. This will slide back in the order of importance to other situations.

I will be extremely surprised if the GOP don't end up in control.

They probably will at the midterms but there will be plenty of blue “single-issue” litmus-test type voters who are probably going to turn out now, especially suburban middle-class women, as well as the young. This is an exceedingly hot button issue here. It shouldn’t be underestimated. I also don’t think it’s a strategy per se — otherwise we would have seen galvanization among blue leadership after the opinion was leaked and we didn’t hear much from Democrats at all, at least not as much as I would have thought. That probably speaks to the complacency level of blues generally.

While I don’t often agree with your form of activism, I have to say blues could use a bit of that right now. They need an angry kick in the ass (or arse).

Economically, I would also not discount the possibility that by the time 24 rolls around, the recession is over, and Biden might get credit for pulling the nation out of it, with some growth numbers to go with it.

 

[Bigga]

They probably will at the midterms but there will be plenty of blue “single-issue” litmus-test type voters who are probably going to turn out now, especially suburban middle-class women, as well as the young. This is an exceedingly hot button issue here. It shouldn’t be underestimated. I also don’t think it’s a strategy per se — otherwise we would have seen galvanization among blue leadership after the opinion was leaked and we didn’t hear much from Democrats at all, at least not as much as I would have thought. That probably speaks to the complacency level of blues generally.

While I don’t often agree with your form of activism, I have to say blues could use a bit of that right now. They need an angry kick in the ass (or arse).

Economically, I would also not discount the possibility that by the time 24 rolls around, the recession is over, and Biden might get credit for pulling the nation out of it, with some growth numbers to go with it.

You know what? I want to agree with you, but I posted about 18 months back a transcript of a Pelosi interview where she loosely admitted to holding Roe v Wade as a threat for voting and then she shut up about it, like she caught herself.

Then today I watched an opinion piece questioning why the Dems had not codified Roe v Wade into law in previous administrations. They suggested it was a peace offering not to upset the GOP as they continued to 'reach across the aisle'.

That just synced everything up for me.

And to make more sense of how compliant the Dems have been to this whole situation, I listened to various talk shows where callers eviscerated the Dem party for using this situation to get out to vote.

Same as they did with the George Floyd murder and the George Floyd Act still hasn't happened yet. And again, in the Biden video I posted earlier, he claimed he would codify into law Roe v Wade, if he got voted in. I doubt VERY much that promise will happen.

I think people are tired of the Dem party and their bullshit promises and neolibralism.

I have said many times now, when people have asked me why I tune into US politics more than UK, I've explained that it's a ripple effect that I see coming down the line.

We have extremely poor politicians operating in our countries dragging us down and there's no end in sight. We need severe course correction before realigning it back to the centre.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

You know what? I want to agree with you, but I posted about 18 months back a transcript of a Pelosi interview where she loosely admitted to holding Roe v Wade as a threat for voting and then she shut up about it, like she caught herself.

Then today I watched an opinion piece questioning why the Dems had not codified Roe v Wade into law in previous administrations. They suggested it was a peace offering not to upset the GOP as they continued to 'reach across the aisle'.

That just synced everything up for me.

And to make more sense of how compliant the Dems have been to this whole situation, I listened to various talk shows where callers eviscerated the Dem party for using this situation to get out to vote.

Same as they did with the George Floyd murder and the George Floyd Act still hasn't happened yet. And again, in the Biden video I posted earlier, he claimed he would codify into law Roe v Wade, if he got voted in. I doubt VERY much that promise will happen.

I think people are tired of the Dem party and their bullshit promises and neolibralism.

I have said many times now, when people have asked me why I tune into US politics more than UK, I've explained that it's a ripple effect that I see coming down the line.

We have extremely poor politicians operating in our countries dragging us down and there's no end in sight. We need severe course correction before realigning it back to the centre.

Fair enough. You are making an argument many thoughtful people on both sides have made: Democrats are bad at politics. The reasons these folks may use for saying so (or for actually being bad) are different, but, the outcome is the same regardless.

 

[SebastianBlue]

You know what? I want to agree with you, but I posted about 18 months back a transcript of a Pelosi interview where she loosely admitted to holding Roe v Wade as a threat for voting and then she shut up about it, like she caught herself.

Then today I watched an opinion piece questioning why the Dems had not codified Roe v Wade into law in previous administrations. They suggested it was a peace offering not to upset the GOP as they continued to 'reach across the aisle'.

That just synced everything up for me.

And to make more sense of how compliant the Dems have been to this whole situation, I listened to various talk shows where callers eviscerated the Dem party for using this situation to get out to vote.

Same as they did with the George Floyd murder and the George Floyd Act still hasn't happened yet. And again, in the Biden video I posted earlier, he claimed he would codify into law Roe v Wade, if he got voted in. I doubt VERY much that promise will happen.

I think people are tired of the Dem party and their bullshit promises and neolibralism.

I have said many times now, when people have asked me why I tune into US politics more than UK, I've explained that it's a ripple effect that I see coming down the line.

We have extremely poor politicians operating in our countries dragging us down and there's no end in sight. We need severe course correction before realigning it back to the centre.

Direct question for hopefully a direct answer:

Do you think the current Democratic Party are better, worse, or the same, as the current Republican Party from a governance and human rights perspective (not regarding who is better at politicking, as I think most would agree that is absolutely the Republicans)?

I ask because, having read your posts for sometime, and having previously debated you on various topics, it always seems you dislike the democrats far more than the republicans, even despite the latter showing much more cruelty to far more people than the former. Even to the point that you seem now to be essentially blaming the democrats for what the partisan republican surrogates on the Supreme Court are doing now (and perhaps what they are still do).

And, to clarify, I am among those tired of the democrats’ bullshit and inaction. But I am not blaming them for the decades of Republican underhanded, cruel, and many times illegal politicking to arrive at this current crossroads which may very well lead to a full on Christian fundamentalist takeover of the US government and another civil war.

They should have stood up to it more strongly, but they aren’t somehow more responsible for it all than the people who have actually been doing it.

 

[SWP's back]

 

[Bigga]

Direct question for hopefully a direct answer:

Do you think the current Democratic Party are better, worse, or the same, as the current Republican Party from a governance and human rights perspective (not regarding who is better at politicking, as I think most would agree that is absolutely the Republicans)?

I ask because, having read your posts for sometime, and having previously debated you on various topics, it always seems you dislike the democrats far more than the republicans, even despite the latter showing much more cruelty to far more people than the former. Even to the point that you seem now to be essentially blaming the democrats for what the partisan republican surrogates on the Supreme Court are doing now (and perhaps what they are still do).

And, to clarify, I am among those tired of the democrats’ bullshit and inaction. But I am not blaming them for the decades of Republican underhanded, cruel, and many times illegal politicking to arrive at this current crossroads which may very well lead to a full on Christian fundamentalist takeover of the US government and another civil war.

They should have stood up to it more strongly, but they aren’t somehow more responsible for it all than the people who have actually been doing it.

Thank you for the question.

Do I think the current Democratic Party are better, worse, or the same, as the current Republican Party from a governance and human rights perspective?

As in all government policies, there is good and bad. That rate of good and bad will differ, of course, dependant on who benefits and who receives deficits. So, as a whole, of course the Dems are somewhat better.

But here's the thing that you can, maybe, understand about parties in similar vein; if you have parents of which one that shouts at you and beats you with a fist regularly and one that talks and hears you, but still slaps you, you going to be much more disappointed in the latter because it's the hope that kills you.

You may know, you may not, but I keep saying you cannot serve two masters, especially if one of those 'masters' set the rules. We KNOW the GOP are happy with this, but the Dems are duplicitous with this fact and we can see it in the result of what they actually offer with policies enacted, not promised.

You have to ask why the Dems continue to 'reach out', rather than govern as the Republicans do. If anyone can answer that, maybe it would get me to a place of understanding.

I don't WANT to hate the Dems, but they are simply a lesser version of the dreadful Repubs.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

The Rock is the only currently-obvious semi-unifying candidate the nation has. Chew on that for a bit! Of course candidates can come out of nowhere. I do think the chances Biden runs again are fading and I never thought they were that high to begin with. I've no sense of who it will be for Democrats. Buttigieg maybe? I still think it'll be DeSantis ("that gimp") for the GOP.

Yep, I fear you may be right.

If Pence stabs Trump in the back, then possibly him and the Florida gimp on the same ticket?

Whichever order the religious fucktards ordain?

 

[ADegenerate]

Free to carry a gun, not free for a woman's right to choose.

What a fucking mess such an amazing country has become.

These religious nutters have taken over the asylum, thanks to a stacked deck from a useless **** who had probably never picked up a Bible until he decided to run for Office.

Many can say what they want about Biden, but he is an inherently good man who must despair that after reaching such a grand old age, has seen his country move so far backwards.

He’s really not though. He’s a career politician to the max. He’s the definition of a bought and paid off do nothing fill in. He’s been on record for wanting to cut and kill off social security for decades and his leaked audio to private donors saying “nothing will fundamentally change” are coming even more into fruition. He lied about canceling student debt (which he can do with executive action) and his failure to do anything on climate change. He’ll go down as the worst president in our history and it’ll be even more shameful because our country will go far right for the next 10 plus years.

He’s absolutely pathetic and I couldn’t be more embarrassed to be aligned with the Democratic Party. For what it’s worth I did my part and donated and volunteered to the Sanders campaign. The DNC would rather stay in power and fight the true left and look where it got them!!!! He’s a total joke and solidified the alt right! It’s inevitable at this point!

 

[ADegenerate]

Yep, I fear you may be right.

If Pence stabs Trump in the back, then possibly him and the Florida gimp on the same ticket?

Whichever order the religious fucktards ordain?

It’s a fucking joke. We have no left side here. We had momentum with the progressive movement and the DNC killed that from within. Desantis will walk into the presidency and honestly they deserve it. I’m ashamed to even be affiliated with them. The left has taken voters for granted. We gave biden all three branches and he’s done nothing. Disgraceful.