US Politics Thread

[madloaf]

Nah, they are all addicted to their dopamine rushes in their black-hat v white hat world. Every day they arise from their slumber and go forth to slay dragons.

Nazi
Fascist
Hitler
Racist
Sexist
Homophobe
Transphobe
White nationalist
White supremacist
Christian Nationalist
Christian Taliban
Y'all Qaeda
Redneck
Hillbilly
Stupid
Moron
Uneducated
Bigot
Imbecile
Russian Asset
Putinista
Rube
Stooge
Cletus
Bible-thumper
White trash
KKK
Trailer dweller

etc.

.....we didn't start the fire...
.

 

[Dax777]

I do have a way that Democrats can save democracy from Hitler and the great unwashed. If you want to save democracy, just campaign on ending elections.

Or, pick up an "assault" rifle, organize a militia, and march on Washington. What self-respecting patriot could do less?

I expect Trump and most Republicans to believe he was such a strong candidate. He wasn't. He's got more baggage than a fully-loaded 747, I mean the guy LITERALLY led and organized a criminal conspiracy to subvert the Constitution (the one he swore to uphold) and install himself as POTUS.

Kamala (prounced Kamala) was such a weak candidate that despite preaching the apocalypse (or maybe because of it) millions of Biden voters sat it out, as did 90 million eligible voters whose alienation from their own government could not be overcome by claims Trump was an existential threat to democracy. At the same time, it's probably unwise to tell Americans that the rise they have seen in their cost-of-living is a figment of their imagination, the border is secure, and Joe Biden is "sharp as a tack."

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

Did they?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I think you are missing a relevant context here.
They are not giving him a platform. He is giving them a platform.

Joe and Mika are grifters. Their show (and MSNBC generally) has tanked since the elections. This sometimes happens to the stations that actively supports the losing candidates, and it's happening now.

The most likely ( and best option) is probably to cancel their failing show, and rebrand with new shows.

Mika and Joe running to Florida to bend the knee is simply an attempt to curry access favors from the new incoming government. This will potentially give them an argument for why MSNBC should keep their show because they have access.

In fairness, no one wants this make up other than the grifters. People on the right see them as the grifters they are who'd say or do anything to stay relevant and the left also now hates them for now making it obvious they were grifting all along.


Trump is trying to be magnanimous.hence why he is condoning this. No one wants this.

Haha, didn't realise it was these two from MSNBC in particular - now wonder people feel betrayed. Grifters indeed, still I don't suppose there is any point interviewing Kamala now.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

It says something when you would rather vote to save someone’s life than killing their entire family.

 

[Username Required]

1. Not really. I am adored by so many -- personally and professionally -- so I don't really need them all to.

2. I sure am. Made a living out of it.

On another note, you must have been over the moon when Trump called you a "sucker" and a "loser", eh?

Thank you for your service.

Cadet Bone Spurs is, in the words of Barrack Obama, "unfit to be President."

That must be why I have never voted for him despite three opportunities so to do.

“We don’t take an oath to a king or a queen or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don’t take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution." General Mike Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and native of Massachusetts.

And you and your whole family are sincerely welcome.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Cadet Bone Spurs is, in the words of Barrack Obama, "unfit to be President."

That must be why I have never voted for him despite three opportunities so to do.

“We don’t take an oath to a king or a queen or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don’t take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution." General Mike Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and native of Massachusetts.

And you and your whole family are sincerely welcome.

As such, why is it so difficult to see how moderates like me are so appalled by HIM? ANYONE is better than him. Kamala (pronounced Kamala) wasn't close to my pick -- she was my Senator and city AG -- but she's not a complete lunatic. I dare say she'd be more pragmatic than Barack Obama. I mean, I voted for Mitt Romney because I thought he was a decent, thoughtful, bright, pragmatic man who was running out of duty, not self-aggrandizement, even though there was plenty about his politics that wasn't me.

But an entire swath of the population overlooks everything about him and votes for . . . what? Promises to make changes he never kept the first time? "Policies" that he can't/won't implement that if they somehow were would have enormous negative consequences for regular people? A man you wouldn't want within 500 miles of your daughter? A literal clown college for a cabinet? A stuttering, rambling man who is demonstrating the same signs of withering age Biden did? A man literally convicted of felonies? The belief that women should be made to provide a pregnancy test to cross a state line?

Really?

What else is anyone supposed to conclude? I've concluded that it was simply a revenge vote. Reds are tired of being "looked down on" or having "the world pass them by" or "want to go back to the old days when the nation was better (LOL)" or are tired of how "unfair" it is that others get something they didn't/don't. And those are legitimate reasons.

But . . .

Some of their feelings are because of they lives THEY choose to live, the opportunities they didn't take, the responsibility set they shirked, that bad decisions they made that left them out in the cold. This is fucking America, after all. And -- a point I keep making -- social media has brought all of the success of others to their doorstep in immediate, aggressive stark ways -- and RWN has been right there along for the ride because that's what profit-making enterprises do (until they're sued for libel).

That's why many -- completely unlike conservatives of yore -- are yearning for an active government to enact huge regulatory barriers (and actual physical ones) and sweeping new laws to fix these "problems", for a folk hero to make it all better, for a bit of karma for those who, apparently, made them miserable and ridiculed and belittled them.

But I have spent lots of time in rural America (the rural west, and Nebraska at any rate). I 100% know I've spent more time in parts of the nation with active "Secede from California/Oregon" counties -- I own a State of Jefferson hat FFS. I sold mobile homes. I worked alfalfa ranches (in Shasta County, CA no less). This isn't what it used to be. Patriotic, conservative, often religious, focus on simple pleasures vs. wealth accumulation, the first to lend a hand -- always -- yes. They loved Ronald Reagan -- I mean adored him.

What has happened to make this portion of America turn to a a man like Donald Trump? A man Ronald Reagan would never give the time of day to -- nor any other President for that matter?

And apologies for calling you a **** before, but I am sensitive to negative commentary about LGTBQ people, and what you wrote wasn't appreciated.

 

[Username Required]

As such, why is it so difficult to see how moderates like me are so appalled by HIM? ANYONE is better than him. Kamala (pronounced Kamala) wasn't close to my pick -- she was my Senator and city AG -- but she's not a complete lunatic. I dare say she'd be more pragmatic than Barack Obama. I mean, I voted for Mitt Romney because I thought he was a decent, thoughtful, bright, pragmatic man who was running out of duty, not self-aggrandizement, even though there was plenty about his politics that wasn't me.

But an entire swath of the population overlooks everything about him and votes for . . . what? Promises to make changes he never kept the first time? "Policies" that he can't/won't implement that if they somehow were would have enormous negative consequences for regular people? A man you wouldn't want within 500 miles of your daughter? A literal clown college for a cabinet? A stuttering, rambling man who is demonstrating the same signs of withering age Biden did? A man literally convicted of felonies? The belief that women should be made to provide a pregnancy test to cross a state line?

Really?

What else is anyone supposed to conclude? I've concluded that it was simply a revenge vote. Reds are tired of being "looked down on" or having "the world pass them by" or "want to go back to the old days when the nation was better (LOL)" or are tired of how "unfair" it is that others get something they didn't/don't. And those are legitimate reasons.

But . . .

A lot of their feelings are because of they lives THEY choose to live, the opportunities they didn't take, the responsibility set they shirked, that bad decisions they made that left them out in the cold. This is fucking America, after all. And -- a point I keep making -- social media has brought all of the success of others to their doorstep in immediate, aggressive stark ways -- and RWN has been right there along for the ride because that's what profit-making enterprises do (until they're sued for libel).

That's why many -- completely unlike conservatives of yore -- are yearning for an active government to enact huge regulatory barriers (and actual physical ones) and sweeping new laws to fix these "problems", for a folk hero to make it all better, for a bit of karma for those who, apparently, made them miserable and ridiculed and belittled them.

But I have spent lots of time in rural America (the rural west, and Nebraska at any rate). I 100% know I've spent more time in parts of the nation with active "Secede from California/Oregon" counties -- I own a State of Jefferson hat FFS. I sold mobile homes. I worked alfalfa ranches (in Shasta County, CA no less). This isn't what it used to be. Patriotic, conservative, often religious, focus on simple pleasures vs. wealth accumulation, the first to lend a hand -- always -- yes. They loved Ronald Reagan -- I mean adored him.

What has happened to make this portion of America turn to a a man like Donald Trump? A man Ronald Reagan would never give the time of day to -- nor any other President for that matter?

And apologies for calling you a **** before, but I am sensitive to negative commentary about LGTBQ people, and what you wrote wasn't appreciated.

Last thing first. There's no need to apologize for calling me a ****. It was a fair comment. A public wrong requires a public apology, so I apologize for my remark and for calling you a twat.

I cannot help you. I have no explanation for what Republicans (whether Christian or not), the party of law and order, the party of family values and so on would see in Donald Trump. I live in Massachusetts and have since 2014. My senator is Pocahontas herself, my governor Maura Healy! I am surrounded by progressives. They can be "preachy" and their self-assurance I sometimes find very irritating but I don't think they are unstable, and I don't find them threatening. Do I disagree with them all the time. No, of course not and on the practical everyday matter of constituency issues Liz Warren is a very good senator.

Trump? I cannot stand the man. When did it become normal for a man to cheat at golf? When did it become normal for a man to wear orange makeup, pancaked on? How does he get away with it? No-one laughs in his face? I've talked to my Trump-supporting neighbors about the problems I have with Trumps lifetime of serious immorality (its like a continuing transaction with him), and they totally conceded he is a scumbag, but "We're not electing a saint".

We're not electing a saint. Could the bar be set any lower than that? My neighbors who voted for him, well, they call him a "carnival barker." They admit he's a conman, and not to be trusted, has the morals of an alley cat and so on. Yet they voted for him, in the primary and the general. They admit his story about bone spurs was a fabrication. They know he's a bully. They know he defrauded a kids cancer charity. We could go on and on. Have you ever read a transcript of any of his speeches? It's total gibberish. His recounting of the Revolutionary War was bizarre he thinks there were airports. Gettysburg? Who knew Robert E. Lee was an Irish Leprechaun.

This is why my neighbors voted for him.

1. Illegal Immigration.
2. Inflation.
3. Second Amendment.
4. Federal judicial picks.
5. Peace with Russia / get rid of all the war-mongering neocons.
6. National debt.

They concede it's 50/50 whether Trump will get anything done even remotely in-line with what he promises, but something is better than nothing.

Even I have been hoping against hope that 2024 Trump had changed, that maybe almost getting killed had caused some change, and for the better - nope. His nominations for cabinet and administration positions - to my mind - seem to involve some sort of retribution for Steve Bannons "Deep State." Most of his picks anyway.

Is it fear motivating his voters? Is it less than fear, an apprehension, an anxiety about the loss of an America that never was in reality? When was America great, that they want to "again"? Every Wednesday I meet at a neighbors house for a couple of beers and a chat as we listen to classic rock or western swing. There are five of us, me and four Trump voters. We also get together on Saturday nights for a proper session. I asked them a couple of weeks before the election about MAGA and could they give me a time period, a decade, something when they thought America was great. After some considerable discussion they settled on...1980-1990. Fair enough. Opinions will differ. At least they didn't say the 1950s when black folks couldn't vote lol so there is that.

I listen to right-wing / conservative talk radio here on a local station. About two hours a day. It's fascinating to hear the commercials. They are all fear based.

Fear of Identity Theft.
Fear of Home Title Theft.
Fear of a collapse of civil society - buy 25 years worth of emergency food.
Fear of a collapse of civil society - buy gold.
Fear of a collapse of civil society - buy a new generation of solar powered generators.

I checked my thinking with my neighbors to see if they agreed (they ALL listen to talk radio), that the advertising was fear-based, and they said they thought it was too. Okay, so does that tell us anything about the people listening?

Anyway. Take it easy.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Last thing first. There's no need to apologize for calling me a ****. It was a fair comment. A public wrong requires a public apology, so I apologize for my remark and for calling you a twat.

I cannot help you. I have no explanation for what Republicans (whether Christian or not), the party of law and order, the party of family values and so on would see in Donald Trump. I live in Massachusetts and have since 2014. My senator is Pocahontas herself, my governor Maura Healy! I am surrounded by progressives. They can be "preachy" and their self-assurance I sometimes find very irritating but I don't think they are unstable, and I don't find them threatening. Do I disagree with them all the time. No, of course not and on the practical everyday matter of constituency issues Liz Warren is a very good senator.

Trump? I cannot stand the man. When did it become normal for a man to cheat at golf? When did it become normal for a man to wear orange makeup, pancaked on? How does he get away with it? No-one laughs in his face? I've talked to my Trump-supporting neighbors about the problems I have with Trumps lifetime of serious immorality (its like a continuing transaction with him), and they totally conceded he is a scumbag, but "We're not electing a saint".

We're not electing a saint. Could the bar be set any lower than that? My neighbors who voted for him, well, they call him a "carnival barker." They admit he's a conman, and not to be trusted, has the morals of an alley cat and so on. Yet they voted for him, in the primary and the general. They admit his story about bone spurs was a fabrication. They know he's a bully. They know he defrauded a kids cancer charity. We could go on and on. Have you ever read a transcript of any of his speeches? It's total gibberish. His recounting of the Revolutionary War was bizarre he thinks there were airports. Gettysburg? Who knew Robert E. Lee was an Irish Leprechaun.

This is why my neighbors voted for him.

1. Illegal Immigration.
2. Inflation.
3. Second Amendment.
4. Federal judicial picks.
5. Peace with Russia / get rid of all the war-mongering neocons.
6. National debt.

They concede it's 50/50 whether Trump will get anything done even remotely in-line with what he promises, but something is better than nothing.

Even I have been hoping against hope that 2024 Trump had changed, that maybe almost getting killed had caused some change, and for the better - nope. His nominations for cabinet and administration positions - to my mind - seem to involve some sort of retribution for Steve Bannons "Deep State." Most of his picks anyway.

Is it fear motivating his voters? Is it less than fear, an apprehension, an anxiety about the loss of an America that never was in reality? When was America great, that they want to "again"? Every Wednesday I meet at a neighbors house for a couple of beers and a chat as we listen to classic rock or western swing. There are five of us, me and four Trump voters. We also get together on Saturday nights for a proper session. I asked them a couple of weeks before the election about MAGA and could they give me a time period, a decade, something when they thought America was great. After some considerable discussion they settled on...1980-1990. Fair enough. Opinions will differ. At least they didn't say the 1950s when black folks couldn't vote lol so there is that.

I listen to right-wing / conservative talk radio here on a local station. About two hours a day. It's fascinating to hear the commercials. They are all fear based.

Fear of Identity Theft.
Fear of Home Title Theft.
Fear of a collapse of civil society - buy 25 years worth of emergency food.
Fear of a collapse of civil society - buy gold.
Fear of a collapse of civil society - buy a new generation of solar powered generators.

I checked my thinking with my neighbors to see if they agreed (they ALL listen to talk radio), that the advertising was fear-based, and they said they thought it was too. Okay, so does that tell us anything about the people listening?

Anyway. Take it easy.

Thanks for that. Not sure what you can do with it. Several of those talking points have been force-fed by RWN (as if Russia wants be our friend, come on, or as if COVID wasn’t the cause of inflation, which has now normalized). Not the SA and not wanting more conservative judges — those might be on the table regardless. Something is better than nothing if the something doesn’t make those other problems (like inflation or the national debt) worse.

But I don’t think it will matter even if it does. If you’re willing to reward a cretin like Trump with the presidency, why would you object to a paedo AG or a vax-denying HHS secretary or indeed any other mental or moral flaw in any candidate who told you what you wanted to hear? Why would you believe Trump had failed if Fox told you he’d been a wild success? It’s all about the issues (that Fox tells you to fear).

Well, I give up, which of course is what those who support Trump want. Hopelessness and fear. There’s really nothing the rest of us can do.

“We’re not electing a saint.” Well, we should be trying to. We used to. And that’s not what they said about Hillary’s emails or Hunter Biden’s laptop or Harris sleeping with Willie Brown — it mattered then.

But that’s not really the issue. The issue is next time, when someone even worse comes along, being a fundamentally decent, normal person won’t matter. And that’s the lesson here. That’s the lesson we should all take away. It doesn’t matter to the majority of voters in America. It’s not the most important thing to people any more, period.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Thanks for that. Not sure what you can do with it. Several of those talking points have been force-fed by RWN (as if Russia wants be our friend, come on, or as if COVID wasn’t the cause of inflation, which has now normalized). Not the SA and not wanting more conservative judges — those might be on the table regardless. Something is better than nothing if the something doesn’t make those other problems (like inflation or the national debt) worse.

But I don’t think it will matter even if it does. If you’re willing to reward a cretin like Trump with the presidency, why would you object to a paedo AG or a vax-denying HHS secretary or indeed any other mental or moral flaw in any candidate who told you what you wanted to hear? Why would you believe Trump had failed if Fox told you he’d been a wild success? It’s all about the issues (that Fox tells you to fear).

Well, I give up, which of course is what those who support Trump want. Hopelessness and fear. There’s really nothing the rest of us can do.

“We’re not electing a saint.” Well, we should be trying to. We used to. And that’s not what they said about Hillary’s emails or Hunter Biden’s laptop or Harris sleeping with Willie Brown — it mattered then.

But that’s not really the issue. The issue is next time, when someone even worse comes along, being a fundamentally decent, normal person won’t matter. And that’s the lesson here. That’s the lesson we should all take away. It doesn’t matter to the majority of voters in America. It’s not the most important thing to people any more, period.

I get it that this is part of your political system, but I’m still getting my head around the fact the Prez can fill his cabinet with unelected business pals.
That’s a foreign concept to me. The cabinet here is comprised of other elected party members. Here also we can have a coalition, so you can have a mixed cabinet….. but they’ve all been elected.

 

[Username Required]

Well, I give up, which of course is what those who support Trump want. Hopelessness and fear. There’s really nothing the rest of us can do.

“We’re not electing a saint.” Well, we should be trying to. We used to. And that’s not what they said about Hillary’s emails or Hunter Biden’s laptop or Harris sleeping with Willie Brown — it mattered then.

But that’s not really the issue. The issue is next time, when someone even worse comes along, being a fundamentally decent, normal person won’t matter. And that’s the lesson here. That’s the lesson we should all take away. It doesn’t matter to the majority of voters in America. It’s not the most important thing to people any more, period.

I'm old enough to remember when Republicans used to claim "character counts." I'm old enough to remember when Republicans used to say they believed in an originalist, textualist approach to the Constitution, whereas Democrats and liberals believed in an un-American "evolving" attitude and analysis. Now what? Republicans now believe that a man who fomented a criminal conspiracy - a white collar insurrection - to overturn an election, subvert the Constitutional order, and install himself as POTUS operating under color of law is a fit person in 2024 to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. It's got to be a joke, right?

Since Reagan, the Republican Party spent decades branding itself as the party of family values, the party of personal responsibility, the party faithful to the Constitution, the party of law and order, the party of national defence and they have tossed it all away for Donald Trump.

It seems to me that Trump, since day one, is selling victim-hood. I think the "left" does this too frankly. To the left, in their oppressor / oppressed dialectic with their hierarchy of victims, EVERYONE is a victim of the straight, white, male - the only constant. If they can't actually find a straight, white, male to blame actively engaged in oppression they blame structural racism for less than optimal outcomes. I've looked into claims of structural racism in sentencing, arrest, and indictment disparities in the criminal justice system and they may have a point here, but I'm not going to argue about it now. I'll end with this - Democrat politicians always stoke fear in black Americans that the evil white Republican is going to oppress them. Maxine Waters on TV years ago before an election saying that Republicans want to put blacks back in chains, and Joe Biden recently speaking before a class of black guys graduating from college claiming Republicans want to "take away your freedoms." They do it every election cycle. The message is - the only thing standing between you black folks and oppression is us, the Democrats.

Trump is selling victim-hood. In Trump-world, the victim is America herself, and, by extension, American citizens.
America is a nation in decline, in many cases a shit-hole. America used to be great, but now, she isn't? What caused this?

The military industrial complex and neo-cons and their forever wars that America never wins. The un-elected Federal bureaucracy. Rogue intelligence agencies that service internationalist interests. Globalists. The main stream media. Post-modern university professors and their left-wing academic cliques. The U.N. and anti-American NGOs. West and east coast cosmopolitan elites. The Deep State.

Trumps "enemy within."

America has been stabbed in the back. That's what Trump sells imo. America has been stabbed in the back but I will save America and all of you.

"They're not coming after me" he says to his supporters, "they're coming after you, I'm just in the way." And now, Trump uses the civil and criminal cases against him as exhibit number one.