US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

[mrbelfry]

I get what Dax and a few others are trying to rationalise as how it’s always been, and you are at it now as well, but I have to say looking on as a spectator I totally get what Foggy is saying.

Never mind the individual circumstances personal to himself and his family. The fact is there was nothing normal about Trumps campaign since losing in 2020.
At least not to my eyes and ears. If that is normal now then basically anything goes. Win at all costs. Might is right. Incite hatred and possible violence towards minorities or anyone who threatens to expose lies or is not on the same page as you.
He was very careful at times with the language he used but although it was perhaps not legally probable, the subliminal message was far from obscure.

The fact that he won and there will be a peaceful transition of power is perhaps a blessing in the short term for ordinary America, but he has a long way to go to convince me that his presidency will only pursue self interest and the electorate he convinced to vote for him are not a major priority to him or more worryingly, whatever is pulling the strings behind him.

I am fully aware also that this is only my opinion looking very much from the outside in and I don’t have a great feel for opinion on the ground in America apart from what I get from in here. So take what you want out of that.
But if this is the feel or opinion on the ground in America, that this is alright, that you agree with the drivel and hate he has spewed knowing truly that the bulk of it is malicious nonsense, then I say to myself, I’ll leave you to it. It’s not a culture I would hold up as a role model to the world.

I am absolutely not trying to legitimise Trump I'm also not on the ground in America. My opinion of Trump is probably closely aligned with Foggy's
. I'm also not prepared to write off the whole of America precisely because there are people like Foggy living in it. Not every American is saying it's all right and neither is every person who voted Republican a Nazi fascist.

The only point I was perhaps clumsily making is that dismissing every Trump voter as an uneducated, racist, misogynist plays right into Trumps hands.

Who are you going to follow and believe? The person who says you're too stupid to understand the nuances of economics because you haven't been to college and you're ruining america because you hate black people and you hate women or the person who says you're a patriot? You love America! Let's make it great again!

Stop telling people they are the problem because they won't come to some sudden realisation that it is them they'll just follow the guy that says it ain't you it's them.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

not when the system throws up a Corbyn - the tribal loyalties melt away faced with a wrong 'un - very odd it didn't happen in the US.

That what I’m trying to establish.
Is this the new normal.

 

[mackenzie]

I've just watched a YouTube compilation of USA Tik Tok people ranting against the Election result. I swear to God they are all fucking insane.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I am absolutely not trying to legitimise Trump I'm also not on the ground in America. My opinion of Trump is probably closely aligned with Foggy's
. I'm also not prepared to write off the whole of America precisely because there are people like Foggy living in it. Not every American is saying it's all right and neither is every person who voted Republican a Nazi fascist.

The only point I was perhaps clumsily making is that dismissing every Trump voter as an uneducated, racist, misogynist plays right into Trumps hands.

Who are you going to follow and believe? The person who says you're too stupid to understand the nuances of economics because you haven't been to college and you're ruining america because you hate black people and you hate women or the person who says you're a patriot? You love America! Let's make it great again!

Stop telling people they are the problem because they won't come to some sudden realisation that it is them they'll just follow the guy that says it ain't you it's them.

I get that and when I said you are now doing it that is not what I was referring to. Not the legitimising of Trump, but rather the inference that it had always been so and that there was nothing new about the tactics employed in this campaign.

Yes. Perhaps the Dems should perhaps have taken note of what you are saying, but trying to rationalise Trumps tactics is a dangerous game in my book.

 

[Frank the Yank]

Is it though? She underperformed Kathy Hochul by 10 points.

If anything, this just confirms what was painfully obvious to anyone who wasn't a true believer... Kamala Harris was a bad candidate who was foisted upon her party too late in the game.

So she lost

The Democrats have to bearvmost of the burden here. Harris was the quintessential DEI hire. That’s what Biden wanted and he picked her.

The circumstances which lead to being the candidate is 100 % the Democrats fault.

Their message is 100 % their fault. Harris didn’t even have the guts to say if she was for or against Prop 36 in California.

 

[Frank the Yank]

Is it though? She underperformed Kathy Hochul by 10 points.

If anything, this just confirms what was painfully obvious to anyone who wasn't a true believer... Kamala Harris was a bad candidate who was foisted upon her party too late in the game.

So she lost

I cannot imagine anyone underperforming a total incompetent hack like Hochul…

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Well, once again - recalling I said at the time Biden should have announced he was a one term President when he won and failing that after the midterms — who should the Democrats have run that could beat Trump assuming any Democrat would get tarred with Biden’s economic “sins” and assuming no one was cretinous enough to get down in the mud with him?

I realiz(s)e it’s hypothetical but I’ve asked this several times and no one has come up with a useful answer that I recall.

 

[Frank the Yank]

This man needs to resign.

Not a chance. He is another shameless hack and will cling to power as long as he can.

 

[Frank the Yank]

Well, once again - recalling I said at the time Biden should have announced he was a one term President when he won and failing that after the midterms — who should the Democrats have run that could beat Trump assuming any Democrat would get tarred with Biden’s economic “sins” and assuming no one was cretinous enough to get down in the mud with him?

I realiz(s)e it’s hypothetical but I’ve asked this several times and no one has come up with a useful answer that I recall.

If Biden bowed out after one term, then the Democrats probably would have had a much stronger candidate. They definitely would have had a better candidate if they were to tell the far left to fuck off.

Al least its candidate would have been somewhat battle tested. Harris was a lousy candidate.

 

[bluejon]

Well, once again - recalling I said at the time Biden should have announced he was a one term President when he won and failing that after the midterms — who should the Democrats have run that could beat Trump assuming any Democrat would get tarred with Biden’s economic “sins” and assuming no one was cretinous enough to get down in the mud with him?

I realiz(s)e it’s hypothetical but I’ve asked this several times and no one has come up with a useful answer that I recall.

how about jon ossoff?