US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

ashleycaulcott1 said:
Heres a question,
Biden got 81 million votes in 2020, Trump 74.

Harris - 69 million votes 2024, Trump 74 again pretty much.

So Trump has performed pretty much the same, but for a democrat point of view where have 12 million votes gone? Thin air?
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Are those figures accurate? If they are then wow. That tells me a lot of people are disillusioned with the democrats and lots didn't vote or voted for independents.
 
bugsyblue said:
Are those figures accurate? If they are then wow. That tells me a lot of people are disillusioned with the democrats and lots didn't vote or voted for independents.
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Cheers - and indeed. If those figures are accurate, then it forms a strong basis for explaining why the election went so unexpectedly poorly for Democrats and indeed suggests a remedy for what might be done to avoid similar disasters in future elections.
 
bugsyblue said:
Are those figures accurate? If they are then wow. That tells me a lot of people are disillusioned with the democrats and lots didn't vote or voted for independents.
Click to expand...
Yeah from what I can see, everyone is complaining about Trump getting back in, but the Democrats need to look at there selves , a 15% loss in votes is ridiculous.
 

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ashleycaulcott1 said:
Yeah from what I can see, everyone is complaining about Trump getting back in, but the Democrats need to look at there selves , a 15% loss in votes is ridiculous.
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I think you have a large section of the more left-leaning faction of dems supporters who don't recognise the party. Back in 2020 you had the wave of new, young progressive dems in AOC and Ilan Omar, plus a big support by the legend Bernie S. I think a lot of young, progressive and environmentally conscious groups got behind the dems. But I think a lot of those people feel let down by Biden/Harris administration. I assumed they would back the dems still against the common enemy of Trump but maybe not.
 
ashleycaulcott1 said:
Yeah from what I can see, everyone is complaining about Trump getting back in, but the Democrats need to look at there selves , a 15% loss in votes is ridiculous.
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"It's the economy, stupid" - if that's indeed the explanation - which I think is true (with the interpretation that it's not how the economy is going but rather how individuals are faring under the economy) then... well, it's somewhat out of the Dems hands... absent some sort of campaign that promises to fix income inequality and that somehow manages to resonate with the majority of voters.
 
ashleycaulcott1 said:
Heres a question,
Biden got 81 million votes in 2020, Trump 74.

Harris - 69 million votes 2024, Trump 74 again pretty much.

So Trump has performed pretty much the same, but for a democrat point of view where have 12 million votes gone? Thin air?
Click to expand...
They are still being counted, so you'd expect that figure to narrow in the coming days but there have clearly been a combination of more people voting for Jill Stein, lots abstaining, or in some cases even flipping to Trump for those who deem the Dems foreign policy (particularly in the ME) to be their main issue. If you are insinuating what I think you are insinuating, why not do it again? Why stop at one election? It would be far easier to do from a position of power than from a position of opposition and you'd have four years to prepare for it.

You do wonder where America goes from here. They have given the keys of the Senate , the House and the Supreme Court to somebody who failed in an attempt to overthrow the constitution last time round, as metaphorically speaking, generals would not take their orders. Trump 2.0 won't be the same, and like all descents into authoritarian regimes, anybody who resists will be replaced by only those loyal to him.

And if, you know, your history......
 
b6_brum said:
They are still being counted, so you'd expect that figure to narrow in the coming days but there have clearly been a combination of more people voting for Jill Stein, lots abstaining, or in some cases even flipping to Trump for those who deem the Dems foreign policy (particularly in the ME) to be their main issue. If you are insinuating what I think you are insinuating, why not do it again? Why stop at one election? It would be far easier to do from a position of power than from a position of opposition and you'd have four years to prepare for it.

You do wonder where America goes from here. They have given the keys of the Senate , the House and the Supreme Court to somebody who failed in an attempt to overthrow the constitution last time round, as metaphorically speaking, generals would not take their orders. Trump 2.0 won't be the same, and like all descents into authoritarian regimes, anybody who resists will be replaced by only those loyal to him.

And if, you know, your history......
Click to expand...
As an American, well, we're about to be subject the the Chinese curse - "May you live in interesting times."

Trump will damage Democracy in America as much as he can during the next 4 years of his term. The checks against his abuse of power remain - The House, The Senate, The Supreme Court and State Governments.

Even though Republicans control all branches of federal government - there's been indication that some nominally loyal Republicans will balk at extreme abuse of power (likely to manifest mostly in the Senate and I think in SCOTUS).

State Government too will oppose Trump as best they can.

Is Trump going to end Democracy in America as we know it? Beats me. I think there's a strong possibility of that happening though.

What might happen in the worst case? Well, Trump might declare martial law to protect against illegal invasion by immigrants. He'd then begin to mass deport immigrants using the army. Having declared martial law, he'd then move to disband SCOTUS if they objected to him. The free press would have long since ceased to exist as Trump would move to void broadcast licenses for any entity he deemed unfaithful to his aims.

In short, American Democracy might end completely under Trump in the next 4 years. I'm not saying that this scenario is a forgone conclusion, or even that it's likely... it is though, very, very possible.

The bellwether for doomsday as outlined above is what happens to the free press. If Trump is able to silence the press through some means or another - then the USA is firmly on the path to fascist authoritarianism.
 
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ashleycaulcott1 said:
Where in my message does it state having an attempted assassination put on him makes him more qualified for presidency?

I simply stated regardless of people’s opinion on him, no one can simply fault his desire and commitment to his cause after what had happened with the will to carry on fighting for what he believes.

An awful lot of people in the world will be happy with his presidency.

Since his presidency ended, the middle east agreed which he worked hard to get to have been shattered, Russia has invaded Ukraine, N Korea is now fighting along side. Most of these issues , Trump had under control.
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Sounds like an example of correlation not implying causation to me.
 
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