US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

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BrianW said:
Fascism is what capitalism does when the conventional 'democratic' system fails them. It is their last bolt hole.

Capitalists will always prefer fascism to communism, and often they prefer it to even the most democratic forms of socialism.

To be honest, if Adolf had played his cards a little bit differently, the UK and USA would have been his best mates. The problem was that the Great War was only 20 years back (easy to forget that) and everyone who was anyone had lost relatives and friends in it. So there was an abiding suspicion of Germany. (We still see its ghost in certain quarters to this day.)
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Utter waffle, and I think you are conflating state capitalism favoured by a lot of authoritarian regimes with the western capitalist view of free market economics.
 
bugsyblue said:
He’s not trying to gaslight. He dislikes trump like how I dislike him. And Trump’s rhetoric has racist undertones which opens the door to this sort of criticism but we have to be better than this. This is the problem with modern politics. Everything is blown out of proportion, each side attack and play dirty against each other, and sadly the dems have ended up playing trump at his own game. And lost. The more he’s called Hitler (which as we’ve discussed is factually not true) the more his supporters rally around him and I do think it helped contribute to those swing voters to turn against the dems.

It’s refreshing we have a prime minister that isn’t populist at least.
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Hold up , most of the facist warnings were coming from Trumps former inner circle, generals that have worked with him for years.

Harris run a campaign predominantly of hope, love and change.
 
BrianW said:
Fascism is what capitalism does when the conventional 'democratic' system fails them. It is their last bolt hole.

Capitalists will always prefer fascism to communism, and often they prefer it to even the most democratic forms of socialism.

To be honest, if Adolf had played his cards a little bit differently, the UK and USA would have been his best mates. The problem was that the Great War was only 20 years back (easy to forget that) and everyone who was anyone had lost relatives and friends in it. So there was an abiding suspicion of Germany. (We still see its ghost in certain quarters to this day.)
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This is a bit excessive because Trump has not advocated for an outright fascist state. At best he has advocated for stricter border controls and an illegal migrant deterrence and that's not controversial or fascist.

This is a big issue to Americans and it probably should be given literally millions of people have entered the US illegally. The numbers who attempted to enter the US illegally increased MASSIVELY under Biden. This could be perceived by many as an invasion given the huge numbers. What was Harris's policy?

I don't like Trump but it cannot be reduced to fascism, there are not 72 million facists and racists in the US. It's a problem and one person gave a vocal answer to that problem whereas the other didn't. The other also called anybody worried about this problem a racist or facist... So is it any surprise that they voted for the boogy man?

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Withnail said:
I bet Lammy is looking forward to dealing with the orange one.
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Being able to be diplomatic with people you dislike and disagree with is basically number one on the list of skills required of a Foreign Secretary. He'll have been preparing for it for a long time and they'll have a strategy in place.

Same with every other foreign leader you might not get along with.

I think Lammy & Starmer will do a better job than Theresa May did last time anyway. That was painful, not least of all for her.
 
west didsblue said:
My views on this have evolved from frustration that so many people were fooled into voting for Trump in 2016 to disappointment that they weren’t actually fooled but actively prefer to have a convicted criminal and rapist as the leader of their country.
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A entertaining villain v a normal boring politician - only one winner in America.

Will be same for UK in future .

I prey I’m wrong.
 
inbetween said:
This is a bit excessive because Trump has not advocated for an outright fascist state. At best he has advocated for stricter border controls and an illegal migrant deterrence and that's not controversial or fascist.

This is a big issue to Americans and it probably should be given literally millions of people have entered the US illegally. The numbers who attempted to enter the US illegally increased MASSIVELY under Biden.

I don't like Trump but it cannot be reduced to fascism, there are not 72 million facists and racists in the US. It's a problem and one person gave a vocal answer to that problem whereas the other didn't. The other also instead called anybody who worried about this problem racist or facist. Is it any surprise then that they voted for the boogy man?

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Indeed. People called the likes of Johnson a fascist, which is frankly ludicrous.

Trump is a nationalist and protectionist, calling him a fascist is stupid.

It is also an insult to people who live in genuinely fascist dictatorships around the world and throughout history.
 
west didsblue said:
My views on this have evolved from frustration that so many people were fooled into voting for Trump in 2016 to disappointment that they weren’t actually fooled but actively prefer to have a convicted criminal and rapist as the leader of their country.
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My view is that they voted for him despite of that. Opinion polling was clear in that Trump supporters were fully aware he didn't not care about them, but they trusted him more on the economy than they did Harris.

A lot of people held their nose and voted with their wallet. It's how people always, always, always vote. Without fail.

As soon as the post-covid inflation bubble hit, this government was toast. I have been saying this for two years. Inflation and the perception of a weak economy always kills governments. Add to that the left's consistent attitude of treating the population like idiots, telling them they're better off when they are tangibly poorer, and it really is game over.

This election had nothing to do with Trump's crimes/indiscretions/unpalatable opinions.
 
inbetween said:
I don't like Trump but it cannot be reduced to fascism, there are not 72 million facists and racists in the US. It's a problem and one person gave a vocal answer to that problem whereas the other didn't. The other also called anybody worried about this problem a racist or facist... So is it any surprise that they voted for the boogy man?
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It's worth posting this again. Trump says a lot of things.

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