Vaccine passports to enter the ground?

[Pingu the Penguin]

I suppose the argument for a vaccine passport at the football here then would be; here are the facts, the potential for a spread at this large scale gathering of around 50k obviously needs to be minimised and as vaccination proves the best way to do this (unless you consider mask wearing too) then this is why we need everyone to be vaccinated.

The [different] personal argument to be vaccinated, the one that isn't selfless and for the benefit of society is a different debate. I'm still unconvinced on its safety long term.

do you mind me asking a couple of Qs about your safety concerns?
Is it speed? If so, most of the tech was based on existing coronavirus data (eg the ones before 19) and because of the scale of the threat of this one an unorecedented amount of money time and cooperation sped things up rapidly. Does that reassure you?

also, would you mind me asking whether you are vaccinated and, if not whether safety fears are behind that?

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Agreed. IMO that's a trademark of this government. They don't know how to do 'positive factual messaging'. Or clear, simple factual messaging.

It's a shame, I've always felt it has cost us, right from the start. After a while, I just adapted and stopped looking for any signs of change.

Boris' style of communication is best termed 'monkey business'. He's courting approval and minimising risk of catching flack in a specific way. Vagueness, double speak and underhanded stuff is where it's at, mixed with a load of very effective, folksy, sentimental appeal. I really don't compare him to Trump. I compare him to W.

At the same time he is a superb judge of what he can get away with in terms of political / administrative manouvering, and seemingly he would rather rely on that every single time. I honestly believe these decisions are all but made. If the young expect clearer, more positive and factual communication, then they should demand it now, remember how they felt, that another approach was obvious to them and very much preferable.

It definitely is par for the course that Boris would leave it to us to argue and reason with each other. He's not that sort of leader to say something tough, unless he knew full well it couldn't come back on him. Never has been, never will.

I'm reminded that people, especially the young, are far more reasonable and fair than the politicians believe. When it all becomes so underhand, it's easy to forget, there are easier ways, and not every issue need take shape as a division between two camps who don't listen. It's so sad to me that I'm now in my mid-40's, and I've never seen so much of it in my life.

Don't forget it. You lot are not unreasonable. But you're not being given clear information.

Great post

 

[ctwrd]

But this makes no sense. Presumably your stance is to protect others? But vaccinated people still transmit. The benefit of vaccination (unlike masks, social distancing, lock down, etc) is largely personal

I think the idea of this social segregation is giving some people a hard on.
The unvaccinated population is a very small percentage. Some of which can’t have it. Some haven’t had it yet but will. Some won’t have it because they are genuinely scared of needles etc… or want a baby soon and frightened of potential impact there. Some won’t have it who don’t go out anyway.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

do you mind me asking a couple of Qs about your safety concerns?
Is it speed? If so, most of the tech was based on existing coronavirus data (eg the ones before 19) and because of the scale of the threat of this one an unorecedented amount of money time and cooperation sped things up rapidly. Does that reassure you?

also, would you mind me asking whether you are vaccinated and, if not whether safety fears are behind that?

Reposted in actual English! Not got my glasses on :)

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I think the idea of this social segregation is giving some people a hard on.
The unvaccinated population is a very small percentage. Some of which can’t have it. Some haven’t had it yet but will. Some won’t have it because they are genuinely scared of needles etc… or want a baby soon and frightened of potential impact there. Some won’t have it who don’t go out anyway.

I also do t think it’s that either! Some people can’t understand why people wouldn’t have it. Not out of a power trip, but out of bemusement. That’s why I think it would be worth understanding the reasons for hesitancy and tackling those (if possible) rather than retreating to tribal camps.

 

[Jesus2020]

do you mind me asking a couple of Qs about your safety concerns?
Is it speed? If so, most of the tech was based on existing coronavirus data (eg the ones before 19) and because of the scale of the threat of this one an unorecedented amount of money time and cooperation sped things up rapidly. Does that reassure you?

also, would you mind me asking whether you are vaccinated and, if not whether safety fears are behind that?

It's a long story that I'll try to condense and you're going to think what the actual fuck but I'll tell it anyway. But no, not yet, I was booked in. Then something changed my mind. Scooby Doo (I know); So, I was talking to someone about how when I was younger I used to see the scooby doo van drive past my estate.
Then the next day the person I told this story to sent me a pic, a van outside their work, it was the fucking scooby doo van. Wtf? The very next day, that's random just on it's own never mind the very next day after randomly talking about it. Not something you often see is it.

Then a few days later I was in a charity shop and the women behind the till's phone rang, the ringtone was scooby doo. I thought you're taking the piss now. Why now, at this point when I'm here. What's this about?

(I realise my previous assertion of not wanting to sound paranoid is rapidly losing credibility here)

Then a week later I dislocate my shoulder. How did I do it? I stood on a toy (think it was from McDonalds I'm not sure) and fall forward and boom, shoulder pops out... It's a fucking scooby doo toy isn't it.

A month or so later I'm waiting at the bus stop to get the bus to the hospital when I spot a man who gets on the hospital bus I'm getting on and on his feet are a pair of unusual looking trainers I've never seen anyone wearing: Scooby fucking doo trainers. I'm like this is a sign. Not sure what for or why the fuck the universe or whatever has chosen scooby fucking doo but I can't ignore this.

Then when I came out of hospital I saw an old friend and their young brother was in hospital on life support about to be turned off due to a blood clot that came after (not sure if because of) having covid.

I immediately booked my jab as I thought that must be the sign. Get the jab or covid might cause the clot.

Then on the way home I read a story about how astra zenica was causing blood clots. And I thought what if that was the sign, don't get the jab, because of blood clots etc.

This is the problem with signs, they're either not very clear or they are a manifestation of your anxieties portrayed and exaggerated by obsessing with the specific focus of your attention at that time,in this case scooby doo, and it's not a sign at all. But then, like, mate,no one ever see's that much scooby doo related stuff all leading to that one interaction at the hospital. It can't not be a sign.


So I wasn't sure what to do other than obsess with finding out as much info as possible before I got the jab or not. And I haven't been able to find any information to sway me either way and put my mind at rest one way or another. I'm fairly intelligent but I can obsess about information etc and I need to know everything about something before I do it when it comes to safety.


The answer about speed from you make sense though, tbf.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

It's a long story that I'll try to condense and you're going to think what the actual fuck but I'll tell it anyway. But no, not yet, I was booked in. Then something changed my mind. Scooby Doo (I know); So, I was talking to someone about how when I was younger I used to see the scooby doo van drive past my estate.
Then the next day the person I told this story to sent me a pic, a van outside their work, it was the fucking scooby doo van. Wtf? The very next day, that's random just on it's own never mind the very next day after randomly talking about it. Not something you often see is it.

Then a few days later I was in a charity shop and the women behind the till's phone rang, the ringtone was scooby doo. I thought you're taking the piss now. Why now, at this point when I'm here. What's this about?

(I realise my previous assertion of not wanting to sound paranoid is rapidly losing credibility here)

Then a week later I dislocate my shoulder. How did I do it? I stood on a toy (think it was from McDonalds I'm not sure) and fall forward and boom, shoulder pops out... It's a fucking scooby doo toy isn't it.

A month or so later I'm waiting at the bus stop to get the bus to the hospital when I spot a man who gets on the hospital bus I'm getting on and on his feet are a pair of unusual looking trainers I've never seen anyone wearing: Scooby fucking doo trainers. I'm like this is a sign. Not sure what for or why the fuck the universe or whatever has chosen scooby fucking doo but I can't ignore this.

Then when I came out of hospital I saw an old friend and their young brother was in hospital on life support about to be turned off due to a blood clot that came after (not sure if because of) having covid.

I immediately booked my jab as I thought that must be the sign. Get the jab or covid might cause the clot.

Then on the way home I read a story about how astra zenica was causing blood clots. And I thought what if that was the sign, don't get the jab, because of blood clots etc.

This is the problem with signs, they're either not very clear or they are a manifestation of your anxieties portrayed and exaggerated by obsessing with the specific focus of your attention at that time,in this case scooby doo, and it's not a sign at all. But then, like, mate,no one ever see's that much scooby doo related stuff all leading to that one interaction at the hospital. It can't not be a sign.


So I wasn't sure what to do other than obsess with finding out as much info as possible before I got the jab or not. And I haven't been able to find any information to sway me either way and put my mind at rest one way or another. I'm fairly intelligent but I can obsess about information etc and I need to know everything about something before I do it when it comes to safety.


The answer about speed from you make sense though, tbf.

Heh that made me laugh! Always thought scrappy doo was the wrong un but obviously it is uncle scoobs!

The blood clot thing is understandable but the evidence shows you are much more likely to get a blood clot as a result of Covid as opposed to having the vaccination. Hope that provides some reassurance!

Covid-19: Risk of cerebral blood clots from disease is 10 times that from vaccination, study finds

Covid-19 is associated with a far greater risk of cerebral venous thrombosis than the vaccinations that protect against it, early research from the University of Oxford has shown. The results, available as a non-peer reviewed preprint,1 show that the risk of cerebral venous thrombosis “is...

www.bmj.com

Like I said earlier in the thread, people’s perception of risk is probably behind a lot of hesitancy. But you need data to compare the risk of doing something with not doing something, and often that is missed out/not available, etc.

I hope you get your vaccine when you are ready mate

 

[Jesus2020]

Heh that made me laugh! Always thought scrappy doo was the wrong un but obviously it is uncle scoobs!

The blood clot thing is understandable but the evidence shows you are much more likely to get a blood clot as a result of Covid as opposed to having the vaccination. Hope that provides some reassurance!

Covid-19: Risk of cerebral blood clots from disease is 10 times that from vaccination, study finds

Covid-19 is associated with a far greater risk of cerebral venous thrombosis than the vaccinations that protect against it, early research from the University of Oxford has shown. The results, available as a non-peer reviewed preprint,1 show that the risk of cerebral venous thrombosis “is...

www.bmj.com

Like I said earlier in the thread, people’s perception of risk is probably behind a lot of hesitancy. But you need data to compare the risk of doing something with not doing something, and often that is missed out/not available, etc.

I hope you get your vaccine when you are ready mate

Yep. Perception of risk plus all that other mad shit I just mentioned.

Thanks, I probably will do.

 

[Jesus2020]

Heh that made me laugh! Always thought scrappy doo was the wrong un but obviously it is uncle scoobs!

The blood clot thing is understandable but the evidence shows you are much more likely to get a blood clot as a result of Covid as opposed to having the vaccination. Hope that provides some reassurance!

Covid-19: Risk of cerebral blood clots from disease is 10 times that from vaccination, study finds

Covid-19 is associated with a far greater risk of cerebral venous thrombosis than the vaccinations that protect against it, early research from the University of Oxford has shown. The results, available as a non-peer reviewed preprint,1 show that the risk of cerebral venous thrombosis “is...

www.bmj.com

Like I said earlier in the thread, people’s perception of risk is probably behind a lot of hesitancy. But you need data to compare the risk of doing something with not doing something, and often that is missed out/not available, etc.

I hope you get your vaccine when you are ready mate

And the toy that caused the dislocation was scrappy doo so yeah.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

It's a long story that I'll try to condense and you're going to think what the actual fuck but I'll tell it anyway. But no, not yet, I was booked in. Then something changed my mind. Scooby Doo (I know); So, I was talking to someone about how when I was younger I used to see the scooby doo van drive past my estate.
Then the next day the person I told this story to sent me a pic, a van outside their work, it was the fucking scooby doo van. Wtf? The very next day, that's random just on it's own never mind the very next day after randomly talking about it. Not something you often see is it.

Then a few days later I was in a charity shop and the women behind the till's phone rang, the ringtone was scooby doo. I thought you're taking the piss now. Why now, at this point when I'm here. What's this about?

(I realise my previous assertion of not wanting to sound paranoid is rapidly losing credibility here)

Then a week later I dislocate my shoulder. How did I do it? I stood on a toy (think it was from McDonalds I'm not sure) and fall forward and boom, shoulder pops out... It's a fucking scooby doo toy isn't it.

A month or so later I'm waiting at the bus stop to get the bus to the hospital when I spot a man who gets on the hospital bus I'm getting on and on his feet are a pair of unusual looking trainers I've never seen anyone wearing: Scooby fucking doo trainers. I'm like this is a sign. Not sure what for or why the fuck the universe or whatever has chosen scooby fucking doo but I can't ignore this.

Then when I came out of hospital I saw an old friend and their young brother was in hospital on life support about to be turned off due to a blood clot that came after (not sure if because of) having covid.

I immediately booked my jab as I thought that must be the sign. Get the jab or covid might cause the clot.

Then on the way home I read a story about how astra zenica was causing blood clots. And I thought what if that was the sign, don't get the jab, because of blood clots etc.

This is the problem with signs, they're either not very clear or they are a manifestation of your anxieties portrayed and exaggerated by obsessing with the specific focus of your attention at that time,in this case scooby doo, and it's not a sign at all. But then, like, mate,no one ever see's that much scooby doo related stuff all leading to that one interaction at the hospital. It can't not be a sign.


So I wasn't sure what to do other than obsess with finding out as much info as possible before I got the jab or not. And I haven't been able to find any information to sway me either way and put my mind at rest one way or another. I'm fairly intelligent but I can obsess about information etc and I need to know everything about something before I do it when it comes to safety.


The answer about speed from you make sense though, tbf.

Final Destination 6: I don’t have a Scooby Do whether to get the vaccine