VAR - 2020/21

[johnnytapia]

It´s killed the game. All the joy of celebrating is now rendered dead. Killed by a system the fans never wanted or asked for. The game had its bad decisions but that was part and parcel of the game. Football existed for 130 years without this shit. It needs fucking off. Completely.

 

[domalino]

I was extremely anti VAR but I’m probably now in the category of really hating it but not having an alternative.

Thought this was a good article in the guardian,

He shoots, he scores – or does he? How VAR changed football for ever

Virtual assistance for referees has drawn complaints from managers, players and fans. What has it done to the beautiful game?

www.google.co.uk

The problem really is the implementation and not the concept.

I was thinking about this watching the Wales v Ireland 6 Nations game on Sunday.

Peter O'Mahoney went into a ruck and hit a Welsh prop sitting on the floor. Some players complain to the referee.

The first thing that happens is Wayne Barnes the referee says "I saw it as a fair clean out, carry on playing, it's getting checked". The game carries on until the ball goes dead. We (the TV audience) hear the TMO say "Check Check. Foul play Green number 6 at the ruck".

So Wayne Barnes stops, looks up at the big screen and sees the replays.

Then, with the TV audience hearing every word, he describes what he sees, and goes through the decision making process. So he says (I'm paraphrasing) "There's no attempt to bind with the arms, so it's an illegal hit to the ruck (This makes it a penalty). He extends his elbow in an almost chicken wing motion, so it's deliberate contact (this makes it a yellow), the contact is with the head, so it's a red card. It was at high speed, out of control and the player didn't change head height as he was on the floor. So there are no mitigating factors to bring it down to a yellow, the decision is a red card. Do you see anything differently?"

Everything was so clear. So precise. He took the audience and the players who can hear him as they're gathered round, through every step of the decision tree, including considering the options that would reduce the punishment.

And as a result, no one can argue with the decision. There's no guesswork.


Football could learn so much from TMO's in rugby and other sports, but they simply refuse to learn from people who've made mistakes and perfected a system over 20 years.

This didn't use to be the case in rugby, but over the years they've worked out a system where everything goes better - from the reaction of the players sent off, the players left on the pitch, to post-match, to coaches comments afterwards - if you just really clearly talk through the decision out loud and the audience hears it.

 

[marco]

It´s killed the game. All the joy of celebrating is now rendered dead. Killed by a system the fans never wanted or asked for. The game had its bad decisions but that was part and parcel of the game. Football existed for 130 years without this shit. It needs fucking off. Completely.

i didnt celebrate any of the 4 goals yesterday as they hit the net,just looked and listened to see if VAR was going to be involved, when you realise its ok the goal is alowed the moment has gone so its 100% taken that 'yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh' away from the fans which is what spectator sport is all about 'thats why we go' managers now calling it out for what its worth,at best if their going to keep it they have to keep it within the stadium and not to a 3rd party hundreds of miles away,the refs know the rules so all they need is the pitch side monitor to go to if its a hard decision and those rewinds of the incident should be shared with the fans on the large screens as the ref scrolls through them and thats it couldnt any more simple really

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

In 2018/19, before VAR was introduced, the percentage of correct key match decisions was 82 per cent. With the help of VAR in 2019/20, it rose to 94 per cent.

Over the course of 2019/20, over 2,400 incidents were checked and 109 decisions were overturned by the VAR, an average of an overturned decision every 3.5 matches.

can't find similar results for last season.

anyway, these stats don't make me an advocate for VAR, they are just the facts.

No one can argue you're personal emotional feeling towards it - me, i have some hope it will always improve but it will be a long process and i don't think we will ever rid of controversial decsions, but key black & white decisions, that is what refs with the help of VAR can get right and must do.

Where are those statistics from. Seem out of kilter from what I’ve read. Can you provide a link?

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

fair enough, but it happens and always will without VAR, refs and linos will incorrectly rule out perfectly good goals.





I watch that i think... well it could take a ref 30 seconds to go to a monitor and rule that out and book Henry.

I don't see why its so extreme to want that option.

however when a ref still watches a replay and doesn't get it right, then its anger all round and justifiably so.

It was a silly hypothetical as serge beat his man to score. Of course, a VAR assisted refereeing team found him to be dubiously offside in the last seconds of a crucial champions league quarter final....

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

The problem really is the implementation and not the concept.

I was thinking about this watching the Wales v Ireland 6 Nations game on Sunday.

Peter O'Mahoney went into a ruck and hit a Welsh prop sitting on the floor. Some players complain to the referee.

The first thing that happens is Wayne Barnes the referee says "I saw it as a fair clean out, carry on playing, it's getting checked". The game carries on until the ball goes dead. We (the TV audience) hear the TMO say "Check Check. Foul play Green number 6 at the ruck".

So Wayne Barnes stops, looks up at the big screen and sees the replays.

Then, with the TV audience hearing every word, he describes what he sees, and goes through the decision making process. So he says (I'm paraphrasing) "There's no attempt to bind with the arms, so it's an illegal hit to the ruck (This makes it a penalty). He extends his elbow in an almost chicken wing motion, so it's deliberate contact (this makes it a yellow), the contact is with the head, so it's a red card. It was at high speed, out of control and the player didn't change head height as he was on the floor. So there are no mitigating factors to bring it down to a yellow, the decision is a red card. Do you see anything differently?"

Everything was so clear. So precise. He took the audience and the players who can hear him as they're gathered round, through every step of the decision tree, including considering the options that would reduce the punishment.

And as a result, no one can argue with the decision. There's no guesswork.


Football could learn so much from TMO's in rugby and other sports, but they simply refuse to learn from people who've made mistakes and perfected a system over 20 years.

This didn't use to be the case in rugby, but over the years they've worked out a system where everything goes better - from the reaction of the players sent off, the players left on the pitch, to post-match, to coaches comments afterwards - if you just really clearly talk through the decision out loud and the audience hears it.

It was a conscious decision not to have transparency. Not arrogance

 

[BlueHammer85]

Where are those statistics from. Seem out of kilter from what I’ve read. Can you provide a link?

VAR - Frequently Asked Questions (premierleague.com)

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

VAR - Frequently Asked Questions (premierleague.com)

So from the premier league with no methodology on how they were compiled. Sounds legit!

 

[HelloCity]

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

The problem really is the implementation and not the concept.

I was thinking about this watching the Wales v Ireland 6 Nations game on Sunday.

Peter O'Mahoney went into a ruck and hit a Welsh prop sitting on the floor. Some players complain to the referee.

The first thing that happens is Wayne Barnes the referee says "I saw it as a fair clean out, carry on playing, it's getting checked". The game carries on until the ball goes dead. We (the TV audience) hear the TMO say "Check Check. Foul play Green number 6 at the ruck".

So Wayne Barnes stops, looks up at the big screen and sees the replays.

Then, with the TV audience hearing every word, he describes what he sees, and goes through the decision making process. So he says (I'm paraphrasing) "There's no attempt to bind with the arms, so it's an illegal hit to the ruck (This makes it a penalty). He extends his elbow in an almost chicken wing motion, so it's deliberate contact (this makes it a yellow), the contact is with the head, so it's a red card. It was at high speed, out of control and the player didn't change head height as he was on the floor. So there are no mitigating factors to bring it down to a yellow, the decision is a red card. Do you see anything differently?"

Everything was so clear. So precise. He took the audience and the players who can hear him as they're gathered round, through every step of the decision tree, including considering the options that would reduce the punishment.

And as a result, no one can argue with the decision. There's no guesswork.


Football could learn so much from TMO's in rugby and other sports, but they simply refuse to learn from people who've made mistakes and perfected a system over 20 years.

This didn't use to be the case in rugby, but over the years they've worked out a system where everything goes better - from the reaction of the players sent off, the players left on the pitch, to post-match, to coaches comments afterwards - if you just really clearly talk through the decision out loud and the audience hears it.

Transparency it would seem finds no favour with the football authoriities despite the obvious benefit to everybody else concerned with the game.

Impossible to know what could they be concerned about , except perhaps the abortion of a process currently operating under the heading of VAR and a set of officials who appear incapable of operating the processes correctly.