Var debate 2019/20

[wattle]

each to their own, im still devastated we didn't get to a Champions League Final!!

If there was no var then Raheem goal would have stood so we probably would have

 

[Eds]

Fair enough, you may have a point with regards to Mane's being too obvious to allow. But it still doesn't make sense for our Firmino/Mane offsides to be ruled out if we're supposed to be getting the decisions. The Origi foul in the build up to Rashford's goal would have been a very easy one to disallow too, but it wasn't.

I suspect if you stay on here long enough you will realise how many decisions you are getting. two possibly three in our game alone. You should have been down to 10 and facing a penalty after five minutes. Numerous violent acts unpunished, blatant penalty in your derby not given which would have resulted in a red under the new laws, cards given out for dives not given, penalties for dives given, need I go on...

 

[MillionMilesAway]

You're missing the point. I stated in the post that I wasn't saying any of them were correct or incorrect. They're just examples of where VAR could have favoured us, but didn't, which in my opinion, kind of disproves that there's some kind of conspiracy to ensure everything goes our way.

For example, a lot of people are saying Henderson handled the ball for our goal against Spurs, and that the fact it was given shows that it is rigged, or whatever you want to call it, but if that's the case, why was Mane's one disallowed? You get me? And Mane's one was in a game we were losing 1-0, so if there was ever a time to give us a dodgy decision, surely that would be it?!

FYI, for the Dunk incident, the issue was that a Brighton player was too close to our wall, which is against the rules this season. That goal, according to the rules, should have not stood. This would have been such an easy one to rule in our favour, because it was actually breaking the rules, but it was allowed to stand and we played the final 15 minutes of the game with a precarious 2-1 scoreline, which, surely if there was an agenda, wouldn't have been allowed?

I can see what you're saying.

As you've previously said, it's not a good line of argument one way or the other, as if the most blatant things were not spotted all the time it wouldn't need opinions as there would be fairly strong evidence.

It also tends to become bogged down with concepts of context of a decision (mischievously, say a defender's handball 5 minutes into the biggest match of the season!), before getting onto opinions on the actual incident.

Armpit offsides are just plain dumb, and I doubt anyone here thinks they should be given on such fine margins. Both Liverpool and City have been hit by them.

I've said before that I don't think Liverpool are involved in arrangement of the shonkiness; I think they have benefitted overall from Riley and his goons' shonkiness. Next week, Oliver does his 5th Liverpool game of the season, and it'll only be Liverpool's 23rd match; that's ridiculous, and I doubt he'll be sent to the Etihad for a while yet after his efforts previously. I doubt we're looking forward to Mason against Sheffield Utd on Tuesday either.

 

[Copper]

I suspect if you stay on here long enough you will realise how many decisions you are getting. two possibly three in our game alone. You should have been down to 10 and facing a penalty after five minutes. Numerous violent acts unpunished, blatant penalty in your derby not given which would have resulted in a red under the new laws, cards given out for dives not given, penalties for dives given, need I go on...

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with, it is easy to go blind to the fact that it happens to everyone, more or less. Not just Liverpool.

I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs, but they're quickly forgotten, whilst Mane's "engineered dives" against Leicester and Spurs are still talked about and scrutinised months later, for example. People are absolutely up in arms about Robertson's tackle, but Sterling's cheeky stamp on VVD has been completely forgotten about (someone even said to me earlier on here that they don't remember it, which says it all). If you put all your focus and energy into trying to spot the things we have "gotten away with", then of course it will seem like we are getting away with more than the other teams who you turn a blind eye to when the same things happen for them.

I also feel that the vast majority of the decisions that people are getting angry about come across as clutching at straws. Like saying Henderson handballed it against Spurs when really, it was near enough impossible to tell in any of the replays, or like constantly referring to the fact VVD may have handled it in the build up to our goal against Wolves (I think it was Wolves?) when, again, it was very difficult to conclude that he had actually handled it, and on top of that, it was explained that even if he did accidentally handle it, according to the rules, it still would have stood, due to it not being handled by the scorer or the creator. I feel like a lot of our "dodgy" decisions have actually been explained perfectly clearly to be correct decisions, but many people refuse to accept this and instead, it is all a part of some big, elaborate conspiracy, which does not make any sense at all, when you look at the number of things that have actually gone against us, as I mentioned before.

Edit: When it goes even further than that, and people start saying things like Liverpool will get decisions against them now to give the appearance of things evening up, or that opposition goalkeepers are all in on this big, elaborate conspiracy to ensure Liverpool win the League, then it starts to really get mind-bogglingly surreal to read and approaches flat-earther territory.

Edit 2: But that's football fandom, for you. I distinctly remember being the same about Fergie's United teams and Howard Webb!

Edit 3: It happens every season, for the leaders/winners, although the reasons/narrative varies.

Liverpool this season? VAR
City winning the last 2 PLs? Oil money
Chelsea winning the League in 2016/17? Nothing without Costa's cheating
Leciester winning it in 2015/16? Everyone else was bad

There's always something, you can't get away from it. Rival fans will always blame a rival's dominance/trophy win on something other than the fact that actually, they are quite good.

 

[Eds]

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with, it is easy to go blind to the fact that it happens to everyone, more or less. Not just Liverpool.

I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs, but they're quickly forgotten, whilst Mane's "engineered dives" against Leicester and Spurs are still talked about and scrutinised months later, for example. People are absolutely up in arms about Robertson's tackle, but Sterling's cheeky stamp on VVD has been completely forgotten about (someone even said to me earlier on here that they don't remember it, which says it all). If you put all your focus and energy into trying to spot the things we have "gotten away with", then of course it will seem like we are getting away with more than the other teams who you turn a blind eye to when the same things happen for them.

I also feel that the vast majority of the decisions that people are getting angry about come across as clutching at straws. Like saying Henderson handballed it against Spurs when really, it was near enough impossible to tell in any of the replays, or like constantly referring to the fact VVD may have handled it in the build up to our goal against Wolves (I think it was Wolves?) when, again, it was very difficult to conclude that he had actually handled it, and on top of that, it was explained that even if he did accidentally handle it, according to the rules, it still would have stood, due to it not being handled by the scorer or the creator. I feel like a lot of our "dodgy" decisions have actually been explained perfectly clearly to be correct decisions, but many people refuse to accept this and instead, it is all a part of some big, elaborate conspiracy, which does not make any sense at all, when you look at the number of things that have actually gone against us, as I mentioned before.

Edit: When it goes even further than that, and people start saying things like Liverpool will get decisions against them now to give the appearance of things evening up, or that opposition goalkeepers are all in on this big, elaborate conspiracy to ensure Liverpool win the League, then it starts to really get mind-bogglingly surreal to read and approaches flat-earther territory.

Edit 2: But that's football fandom, for you. I distinctly remember being the same about Fergie's United teams and Howard Webb!

Edit 3: It happens every season, for the leaders/winners, although the reasons/narrative varies.

Liverpool this season? VAR
City winning the last 2 PLs? Oil money
Chelsea winning the League in 2016/17? Nothing without Costa's cheating
Leciester winning it in 2015/16? Everyone else was bad

There's always something, you can't get away from it. Rival fans will always blame a rival's dominance/trophy win on something other than the fact that actually, they are quite good.

I gave up at this 'I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs'. Bye enjoy your life and trolling

 

[Copper]

I gave up at this 'I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs'. Bye enjoy your life and trolling

Okay... I mean, it is true, so I don't know what else you want me to say? Sterling and Mahrez have both won penalties in a similar fashion. This is what I mean by turning a blind eye to it, but if you don't want to continue the discussion, that's fine by me.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with....

So what you're effectively saying is that your results and the media rhetoric regarding your results don't stand up to scrutiny (?)

 

[ballinio]

Personally, I feel that if you look hard enough, or spend enough time focusing on the little things one team is getting away with, it is easy to go blind to the fact that it happens to everyone, more or less. Not just Liverpool.

I have seen City win penalties in a similar fashion to how Mane won our penalties against Leicester and Spurs, but they're quickly forgotten, whilst Mane's "engineered dives" against Leicester and Spurs are still talked about and scrutinised months later, for example. People are absolutely up in arms about Robertson's tackle, but Sterling's cheeky stamp on VVD has been completely forgotten about (someone even said to me earlier on here that they don't remember it, which says it all). If you put all your focus and energy into trying to spot the things we have "gotten away with", then of course it will seem like we are getting away with more than the other teams who you turn a blind eye to when the same things happen for them.

I also feel that the vast majority of the decisions that people are getting angry about come across as clutching at straws. Like saying Henderson handballed it against Spurs when really, it was near enough impossible to tell in any of the replays, or like constantly referring to the fact VVD may have handled it in the build up to our goal against Wolves (I think it was Wolves?) when, again, it was very difficult to conclude that he had actually handled it, and on top of that, it was explained that even if he did accidentally handle it, according to the rules, it still would have stood, due to it not being handled by the scorer or the creator. I feel like a lot of our "dodgy" decisions have actually been explained perfectly clearly to be correct decisions, but many people refuse to accept this and instead, it is all a part of some big, elaborate conspiracy, which does not make any sense at all, when you look at the number of things that have actually gone against us, as I mentioned before.

Edit: When it goes even further than that, and people start saying things like Liverpool will get decisions against them now to give the appearance of things evening up, or that opposition goalkeepers are all in on this big, elaborate conspiracy to ensure Liverpool win the League, then it starts to really get mind-bogglingly surreal to read and approaches flat-earther territory.

Edit 2: But that's football fandom, for you. I distinctly remember being the same about Fergie's United teams and Howard Webb!

Edit 3: It happens every season, for the leaders/winners, although the reasons/narrative varies.

Liverpool this season? VAR
City winning the last 2 PLs? Oil money
Chelsea winning the League in 2016/17? Nothing without Costa's cheating
Leciester winning it in 2015/16? Everyone else was bad

There's always something, you can't get away from it. Rival fans will always blame a rival's dominance/trophy win on something other than the fact that actually, they are quite good.

Your title is a hollow victory , var gave it you , the facts back this up , you’re just trying a bullshit baffles brains strategy, fans up & down the country know what’s going on , having cheated & every major decision gone your way you will get no respect .

 

[Phil1]

They will give no shits at all if their title is perceived to be tainted.
Nor will two fucks be given about any lack of respect (which won’t happen in the media, anyway)
They are blinded to any criticism of their club.
The weird fucking cult that they are.

 

[Newman Noggs]

Your title is a hollow victory , var gave it you , the facts back this up , you’re just trying a bullshit baffles brains strategy, fans up & down the country know what’s going on , having cheated & every major decision gone your way you will get no respect .

I can't agree with this. I think their consistency means that they might have won the league without VAR. The trouble is, we'll never know.