Var debate 2019/20

[PistonBlue]

It’s because Llorente’s arm was against his body whereas last night the arm was completely outstretched.

It's bollocks mate.
So you can score with your hand as long as it's in the confines of your own silhouette effectively. The handball rule is now just a lottery.
The game is fucked

 

[HelloCity]

It's bollocks mate.
So you can score with your hand as long as it's in the confines of your own silhouette effectively. The handball rule is now just a lottery.
The game is fucked

Truth is, handball has been like this for 2-3 decades.

Look at every handball decision that gets given and the ones that don’t.

It’s always been such a random decision.

 

[PistonBlue]

Truth is, handball has been like this for 2-3 decades.

Look at every handball decision that gets given and the ones that don’t.

It’s always been such a random decision.

And that's exactly what VAR was supposed to change

 

[Gundogan's Moustache]

If that was outside the box and it wasn’t given no one would of battered an eyelid

 

[HelloCity]

And that's exactly what VAR was supposed to change

I don’t think it’s possible. It’s just so subjective.

Maybe it should only be given if it’s 100% clear a player has tried to actually block the ball or something.

Nobody would dispute the Suarez one at the WC for example.

 

[purplenose]

That last night was a penalty. If you are in the area waving your arms about then its asking for it.

 

[dadnlad]

If that was outside the box and it wasn’t given no one would of battered an eyelid

i think he'd of give it with or without VAR, but maybe not at other end of pitch

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Thought I’d copy the new rule in full out:

Handling the ball

It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
• scores in the opponents’ goal
• creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

It is usually an offence if a player:
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
• the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

—————
So, last nights decision a correct implementation of the new law. Llorente’s against us would also have been disallowed

 

[deano ou812]

The handball rule was changed after Otamendi’s one against schalke,any handball now deliberate or not in the box is deemed a pen ..

 

[1961_vintage]

VAR will be nothing more than an additional tool used to ensure that whatever pre-determined outcome is required can be justified.

 

[quiet_riot]

Llorente’s against us would also have been disallowed

Really? See, interpretations and all that:

Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)

 

[Allnightlong]

Thought I’d copy the new rule in full out:

Handling the ball

It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
• scores in the opponents’ goal
• creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

It is usually an offence if a player:
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
• the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

—————
So, last nights decision a correct implementation of the new law. Llorente’s against us would also have been disallowed

well last nights should not have been given.....oh i dont know....it seems to contradict its self

 

[SebastianBlue]

Thought I’d copy the new rule in full out:

Handling the ball

It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
• scores in the opponents’ goal
• creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

It is usually an offence if a player:
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
• the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

—————
So, last nights decision a correct implementation of the new law. Llorente’s against us would also have been disallowed

*if VAR had shown the referee the angle clearly showing that the ball hit Llorente’s arm.


And thus we see one of the main problems with the current implementation.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Really? See, interpretations and all that:

That’s the interpretation for the “usually” handball bit. Scoring a goal is always going to be a handball - the it is an offence bit

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

We could end up with a situation, where defenders are going to be defending with their arms behind their back's as the norm. That would be farcical for the game. Happened with the 2nd goal last night think Vertonghen was the defender.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

*if VAR had shown the referee the angle clearly showing that the ball hit Llorente’s arm.


And thus we see one of the main problems with the current implementation.

It would be good to see what the Ref saw. From memory I thought he got 2 angles but there were 3. So, yeah!

 

[SebastianBlue]

It would be good to see what the Ref saw. From memory I thought he got 2 angles but there were 3. So, yeah!

He was only shown two angles, on a loop (for reasons passing understanding), both of which were the ones that made it difficult to determine if the ball hit his arm, whilst the one angle that clearly showed it hitting Llorente’s arm was only shown by the broadcasters for... reasons?

(We all know the reasons.)

And this is only one example of the dubious implementation of VAR. We have had a few things go our way, that is undeniable, but the shear volume going against us or going in favour of our rivals is confounding and the current implementation, unless altered, will likely not change that trend.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

It's subjective. It is the refs decision. VAR not required, otherwise they're just letting someone else make subjective decision.

VAR should only be used for objective decisions... Offside, crossing the line.

Too much has been invested in it though, training, money, equipment!

 

[blueparrot]

It's subjective. It is the refs decision. VAR not required, otherwise they're just letting someone else make subjective decision.

VAR should only be used for objective decisions... Offside, crossing the line.

Too much has been invested in it though, training, money, equipment!

It can still be subjective for the referee, but let the ref see it from a different angle. Which is where the Llorente one went wrong they kept showing the ref the same angle.

 

[Abattoir Blue]

*if VAR had shown the referee the angle clearly showing that the ball hit Llorente’s arm.


And thus we see one of the main problems with the current implementation.

I'd say not because Mane deliberately hits it at his arm.