Var debate 2019/20

[kaz7]

I completely agree, I can’t remember whether I worked it out to be accurate to 13 or 38cm in all fairness, I’ve slept since then. You can’t possibly reduce the acceptable margin of error below whatever was accurate because you would potentially rule out fair goals. That’s why I disagreed with the previous poster @meltonblue (sorry I think it was you, apologises if not).

If we get some goals that are possibly offside within that fall within that margin of error but everyone knows the rules then so be it.

Yep i think the key is they tell us what the measurement is going to be then everyone knows what to expect,i think most of the problems are coming from the secrecy that is going on and the lies swarbrick is coming out with to justify their decisions,it just cannot be possible that they have not changed one decision a onfield ref has made so far,we can all see what they are missing in terms of pens,why are they not giving those but they are calling offside that they couldn't measure with any certainty and a ball brushing an arm that not one player or fan saw and didn't create a goal by their own rules

 

[homerdog]

VAR is very simple to fix.

1. Mic the corrupt cünts up, the decision making process should be completely transparent. No need for post match explanations.

Exactly, just like rugby union - "Silva has gone down under challenge in the area; I didn't see anything, but was there a foul, penalty or no penalty"?
VAR "the defender stood on his foot, penalty".

 

[flook]

Every player wears those weird “football bras” with trackers. Put one positional tracker on the front and one on the back of the equipment worn by each player and use whichever is closest to the goal to check for offside. Then Take two frames - the one before the ball is touched and the first one when it is touched. Highlight those two frames and a computer does the rest. Easy peasy. Must be offside in both frames. No margin for error required

I'm not sure what tech these use, but I'm guessing it isn't accurate enough for this? great idea though

 

[flook]

We could get ball boys to sprint onto the pitch with the monitors for the ref to speed up the process or here's an idea mic up the ref and show it in the big screens at all but two grounds

better yet, make it a requirement of membership of the premier league to have a VAR screen for fans to view, it the red shite are strapped for cash, I have a spare 37 inch I can let them have cheap

 

[ctid1894]

Yep i think the key is they tell us what the measurement is going to be then everyone knows what to expect,i think most of the problems are coming from the secrecy that is going on and the lies swarbrick is coming out with to justify their decisions,it just cannot be possible that they have not changed one decision a onfield ref has made so far,we can all see what they are missing in terms of pens,why are they not giving those but they are calling offside that they couldn't measure with any certainty and a ball brushing an arm that not one player or fan saw and didn't create a goal by their own rules

A complete lack of transparency, followed by blatant lies enables PiGMOL to hide “incorrect” corrupt decisions. We all know it’s bent but it’s impossible to prove as things stand because the media will never pursue anyone or anything due to the money they would stand to lose.

 

[Blue Mooner]

That is absolutely brilliant, the transparency of having the officials like mic’d up like that would mean fans were far more lenient with the odd mistakes. You can tell when someone is being honest and genuine and just giving an open account of what they saw.

It would also hugely cut down the dissent from players and managers because they would have a better understanding of why decisions were made. If we heard referees saying “free kick there if you want it” to Bernardo for example, who then subsequently loses possession a second after he’s said no, it would completely change fans perspectives.

Exactly, its precisely because of the complete lack of transparency that people like me believe its corrupt.

It was introduced allegedly to cut down on mistakes but it's not being used for that purpose (unless it's an unseen very obscure handball - that is subsequently proven to not be handball) its utterly bizarre!

 

[meltonblue]

The officials have to earn trust,there are far too many differences in how they treat different clubs,we have had the shitty stick for a long time whilst the rags and dippers get away with murder,what about the treatment we have had in the last 3 games already would you give them trust for that? we don't have to give them an inch,they are taking the rules of football and fucking about with them for no reason,correcting errors is all they needed to do,not a singledecision has been overturned,the refs aren't allowed to look at the monitor,everything they have done so far is to cover their own backs,they are sticking together like glue,why do you want to trust that?they can't be allowed to cheat in plain sight

That’s kind of proving my point though. As long as you believe they’re already coming into it with that point of view, it will never work. It needs transparency from refs as well as fans being rational for it to embed properly, neither of which currently exist.

 

[Matt the Giant]

Does anyone of you have an overall view of how other teams fans feel about var? Is the general feeling here on our board mirrored by others?

 

[cibaman]

5cm is not enough,the equipement they are using is not fast enough to measure that close,they need to work out a comfortable margin of error,tell us what it is and stick to it

13 cm is based on players running on to a pass at top speed. Most offsides aren’t like that. They’re more often players stepping ahead of their marker from almost standing starts. If they introduce a 13 cm tolerance goals will be allowed which will look completely ridiculous.

 

[kaz7]

That’s kind of proving my point though. As long as you believe they’re already coming into it with that point of view, it will never work. It needs transparency from refs as well as fans being rational for it to embed properly, neither of which currently exist.

The onus is on them to stop lying and undermining their own system,i can't excuse what they have done to us already,it's only been 3 games and we have been shafted in every game,they have abused their own rules in order to make sure we are dropping points,we have absolutely no reason to sit by and let them get away with that or any reason to give them any trust,maybe if they had treated us the same as everyone else we might have got somewhere,they have been testing this out behind the scenes on the 3pm games for a year,we have only 3 games to go on,they lied about what it was for,no-one expected this clusterfuck

 

[kaz7]

13 cm is based on players running on to a pass at top speed. Most offsides aren’t like that. They’re more often players stepping ahead of their marker from almost standing starts. If they introduce a 13 cm tolerance goals will be allowed which will look completely ridiculous.

The trouble is ours are often on the break with the players running fast,do we have to accept that we are going to have loads of goals ruled out or do they have to find a way to make decisions within the VAR limits that is fair for everyone? what we do know is that the VAR they are using can't be accurate to say 2.5cm is offside

 

[SWP's back]

Exactly, just like rugby union - "Silva has gone down under challenge in the area; I didn't see anything, but was there a foul, penalty or no penalty"?
VAR "the defender stood on his foot, penalty".

Not difficult is it.

And have every **** watching on tv and in the stands hear it.

 

[cibaman]

The trouble is ours are often on the break with the players running fast,do we have to accept that we are going to have loads of goals ruled out or do they have to find a way to make decisions within the VAR limits that is fair for everyone? what we do know is that the VAR they are using can't be accurate to say 2.5cm is offside

If they apply a margin of error of 13cm+ it would almost eliminate offsides at set pieces. Defenders would be at such a disadvantage that they just wouldn’t be able to play an offside line. That might actually be a good thing but it should be an intentional change, not a consequence of VAR.

Rather than just basing any tolerance on the hypothetical case of a Sane or Sterling running at full speed, they need to analyse a typical sample of offside decisions, calculate the average speed that the attacking player is running and use that as a starting point. Perhaps add a couple of cm to encourage attacking play. Whatever they come up will not be 100% accurate in all cases it just needs to be right more often than not.

 

[MadchesterCity]

Interesting vid. Yep only the Australian league but a bit of an insight into how it works.
Can't say it'll catch on here though.

Brilliant but could you imagine the brain dead idiot refs we have here.
We need top quality foreign referees of the required standard not these balloons

 

[MadchesterCity]

I'd give ours a one way ticket to the antartic lol

Your too kind! At least they got penguins there, send them to the Arctic with the Polar bears

 

[manimanc]

Brilliant but could you imagine the brain dead idiot refs we have here.
We need top quality foreign referees of the required standard not these balloons

I'm sure this ref featured is coming to the championship next season.
If the foreign refs came over here it'd be like watching the champions league every week, we'd probably get the Turkish ref from the spurs match shrugging his shoulders and looking clueless .

 

[kaz7]

If they apply a margin of error of 13cm+ it would almost eliminate offsides at set pieces. Defenders would be at such a disadvantage that they just wouldn’t be able to play an offside line. That might actually be a good thing but it should be an intentional change, not a consequence of VAR.

Rather than just basing any tolerance on the hypothetical case of a Sane or Sterling running at full speed, they need to analyse a typical sample of offside decisions, calculate the average speed that the attacking player is running and use that as a starting point. Perhaps add a couple of cm to encourage attacking play. Whatever they come up will not be 100% accurate in all cases it just needs to be right more often than not.

So long as we are not going to be in a situation where we are disadvantaged because we have speedy players then i would expect some margin of error,it needs to be worked out much better than it has been,you would think they would have worked it out properly before going ahead with it,i would also like an independent body to audit the whole system,i just don't trust PIGMOL as far as i can throw them

 

[Dr.Faustus]

If they apply a margin of error of 13cm+ it would almost eliminate offsides at set pieces. Defenders would be at such a disadvantage that they just wouldn’t be able to play an offside line. That might actually be a good thing but it should be an intentional change, not a consequence of VAR.

Rather than just basing any tolerance on the hypothetical case of a Sane or Sterling running at full speed, they need to analyse a typical sample of offside decisions, calculate the average speed that the attacking player is running and use that as a starting point. Perhaps add a couple of cm to encourage attacking play. Whatever they come up will not be 100% accurate in all cases it just needs to be right more often than not.

The introduction of a margin of error need not be static- it could be determined from the video footage the rate of acceleration of the player, and its not particularly difficult to determine a pattern of acceleration for each player (and a top speed) based on previously held footage.

In its current form VAR is a lazy implementation.

 

[HarrytheBlue]

The Lascelles rugby style dive into Kane looked a pen to me.

 

[HarrytheBlue]

Suspend VAR until decisions are as instant as goal line tech. My software developer son tells me the tech is there - just needs a bit of adaptation. Alternatively, require VAR refs to do what the cricket equivalents have to do - i.e. provide a live running commentary on what they're seeing to justify their decision.