VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[BlueHammer85]

Liverpool fans think it’s against them on RAWK, Chelsea fans think it’s against them on Shed End, Rags on Red cafe, Villa fan on Villa talk. Every team think they’re special and worst affected by it.

In my mind, no one on here is a bigger blue than me, my mood, day, week and mental state is hugely affected by a City result, I live away now so can’t go to more than a couple of games a season but I’ve still not missed a live match since 2012 so the following isn’t a case of me not caring:

City aren’t given special treatment by VAR. We get some that surprise me. We lose some that surprise (and annoy the fuck out of me), some teams appear to get more of the rub of the green to my eyes - but then you read their views and they point out things we miss/forget/ignore that went against them.

i totally get why some fans in here suffer from extreme myopia, that’s what fans do, it’s how we’re built as humans, how we’ve evolved (my tribe good, their tribe bad) but let’s not pretend that decisions were even as close to being better pre/VAR.

2012 and the three months of Ashley Young dives and talks of conspiracies are still clear in my mind. United have probably benefitted the least from VAR as they used to get away with murder at OT. It’s not a perfect system and it could be massively improved with live and on air broadcast of discussion (a la rugby union et al), but it’s better than the previous system.

Yep spot on.
I’ve been called a troll for having very similar views.

Pre VAR it was way easier for officials to be ‘corrupt’ - just flag and point to the spot whenever they feel like it, they’ve made it way harder bringing tech in and having a team of people to come to the correct or best conclusion- it’s still nowhere near perfect but id rather keep let it evolve to improve than go back to refs guessing.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Liverpool fans think it’s against them on RAWK, Chelsea fans think it’s against them on Shed End, Rags on Red cafe, Villa fan on Villa talk. Every team think they’re special and worst affected by it.

In my mind, no one on here is a bigger blue than me, my mood, day, week and mental state is hugely affected by a City result, I live away now so can’t go to more than a couple of games a season but I’ve still not missed a live match since 2012 so the following isn’t a case of me not caring:

City aren’t given special treatment by VAR. We get some that surprise me. We lose some that surprise (and annoy the fuck out of me), some teams appear to get more of the rub of the green to my eyes - but then you read their views and they point out things we miss/forget/ignore that went against them.

i totally get why some fans in here suffer from extreme myopia, that’s what fans do, it’s how we’re built as humans, how we’ve evolved (my tribe good, their tribe bad) but let’s not pretend that decisions were even as close to being better pre/VAR.

2012 and the three months of Ashley Young dives and talks of conspiracies are still clear in my mind. United have probably benefitted the least from VAR as they used to get away with murder at OT. It’s not a perfect system and it could be massively improved with live and on air broadcast of discussion (a la rugby union et al), but it’s better than the previous system.

Better or worse is so subjective, though, isn't it? Do the gains (I can accept there are some) outweigh the negatives? Also subjective.

I am not so sure.

Gains:
Should eliminate absolute howlers by the officials on the pitch
Should eliminate non-contact penalties / red cards

Weaknesses:
Decisions take too long ruining the flow and fan experience
Marginal offsides ruining the fan experience not to mention the art of playing on/off side
Poor communication of decision process

Not sure

 

[halfcenturyup]

Yep spot on.
I’ve been called a troll for having very similar views.

Pre VAR it was way easier for officials to be ‘corrupt’ - just flag and point to the spot whenever they feel like it, they’ve made it way harder bringing tech in and having a team of people to come to the correct or best conclusion- it’s still nowhere near perfect but id rather keep let it evolve to improve than go back to refs guessing.

Refs guess now, they guessed before and they will guess in the future. Pre-VAR there was no check on their guesses other than pillorying in the press, now there is hardly any check on their guesses when it involves subjectivity, other than pillorying in the press.

Again, better or worse? Everyone has a view depending how they weight the various factors. And possibly depending on how many games they attend.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Better or worse is so subjective, though, isn't it? Do the gains (I can accept there are some) outweigh the negatives? Also subjective.

I am not so sure.

Gains:
Should eliminate absolute howlers by the officials on the pitch
Should eliminate non-contact penalties / red cards

Weaknesses:
Decisions take too long ruining the flow and fan experience
Marginal offsides ruining the fan experience not to mention the art of playing on/off side
Poor communication of decision process

Not sure

fair points, but those weaknesses can be improved over time and in some cases already have.

 

[halfcenturyup]

fair points, but those weaknesses can be improved over time and in some cases already have.

:) They are certainly improving the weaknesses. They have nearly perfected them. But I know what you mean.

And I am not so sure.

They are still making howlers. No criticism from me, though. Human involvement will lead to howlers, pre or post VAR, and refereeing is a hell of a job.

Are delays getting shorter? 4 and a half minutes at the weekend?

And, for me, the offside fiasco is going in completely the wrong direction towards more automated 1mm decisions and less human eye decisions.

But as I say, people see things differently.

Where do you see weaknesses being corrected?

 

[Metalartin]

Goldbrige at it again. Says he's watched it back 50 times and he doesn't think Doku touches the ball. A stonewall pen and City should be out of the title race.

Webb was right the ball was too low to head for one.

I've played the slowmo back at 0.25 speed and I'm fairly certain:

Doku was closest to the ball as it travels closer to both players, Mac Allister is the one who rushed in because he had to make up more ground.

Mac Allister tries to shoulder the ball(because it's too low to head) but gets a glance on it with the arm instead(what part of the arm is up for debate because of the angle).

Doku does definitely get a touch on the ball, it's the only thing that explains the ball flying off in the direction it does. Which means he won/cleared the ball from immediate danger.

Doku doesn't come over the top of the ball as I'm seeing in a lot of arguments. He's coming from underneath it(the flight of the ball argument from above applies).

Doku hops on one leg to reach it but that's not what the two feet off the ground rule means(or overhead kicks, scissor kicks, volleys etc wouldn't be allowed if you took it so literally).

...Continuation of the above, Doku isn't out of control either, he in fact pulls his leg away, where Mac Allister seems to be the one who follows through(seeking the contact perhaps?) the most between the two. Watch his torso and his shoulder.

Have we seen those given? Yes and we probably would have had to accept the refs on field decision, had that been what he went with. Was it a stonewall? Not even close. No more controversial than the Alisson 'foul' decision at the Etihad, for a goal I felt should have stood.

 

[stonerblue]

Clear foul by Regulion on Burnley player denying a clear scoring chance - Waved away by ref.
VAR recalls, ref checks monitor and sees it’s a clear foul and last man.
Only 5 mins into match so most refs would have waved it away.
Thankfully Var in place.

Great, a gaggle of blokes we don't know who, deciding football games via slow motion. Fucking brilliant eh...

 

[stonerblue]

Liverpool fans think it’s against them on RAWK, Chelsea fans think it’s against them on Shed End, Rags on Red cafe, Villa fan on Villa talk. Every team think they’re special and worst affected by it.

In my mind, no one on here is a bigger blue than me, my mood, day, week and mental state is hugely affected by a City result, I live away now so can’t go to more than a couple of games a season but I’ve still not missed a live match since 2012 so the following isn’t a case of me not caring:

City aren’t given special treatment by VAR. We get some that surprise me. We lose some that surprise (and annoy the fuck out of me), some teams appear to get more of the rub of the green to my eyes - but then you read their views and they point out things we miss/forget/ignore that went against them.

i totally get why some fans in here suffer from extreme myopia, that’s what fans do, it’s how we’re built as humans, how we’ve evolved (my tribe good, their tribe bad) but let’s not pretend that decisions were even as close to being better pre/VAR.

2012 and the three months of Ashley Young dives and talks of conspiracies are still clear in my mind. United have probably benefitted the least from VAR as they used to get away with murder at OT. It’s not a perfect system and it could be massively improved with live and on air broadcast of discussion (a la rugby union et al), but it’s better than the previous system.

Gave this a like but can't agree with your last sentence. Rest is bang on.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Refs guess now, they guessed before and they will guess in the future. Pre-VAR there was no check on their guesses other than pillorying in the press, now there is hardly any check on their guesses when it involves subjectivity, other than pillorying in the press.

Again, better or worse? Everyone has a view depending how they weight the various factors. And possibly depending on how many games they attend.

Correction. They weren't guessing before VAR. They saw what they saw, and made confident decisions based on what they saw, instinctively. Now they are not only guessing but they are second-guessing themselves, as every single decision they make comes with a contingency plan that their on-field decisions aren't that important anymore because someone else is always there to overrule them if it's wrong. And then of course if it goes to VAR and it's not an easy decision the VAR can say oh well we're not sure lets just stay with the on-field official. A complete shamble.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Great, a gaggle of blokes we don't know who, deciding football games via slow motion. Fucking brilliant eh...

And we get to wait ages for the game-deciding decisions to be decided upon.