VAR (PL introduction 2019)

ESPN FC discussing the penalty incident (none of them ex-United or pro-United). Penalty discussion from 6:12 onwards (video should start playing from there if I did this right)

 
That wasn't a penalty last night. That said it was more of a penalty than Otamendi's so in that respect it was at least consistent.
The arms of the PSG player were not really a sufficient distance from his body to be given as a penalty, it was a natural position. The lower arm was closer to his body than his elbow and the angle of arm to shoulder was less than 30%.
I await to see the VAR shilouette that UEFA will use next season.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
That wasn't a penalty last night. That said it was more of a penalty than Otamendi's so in that respect it was at least consistent.
The arms of the PSG player were not really a sufficient distance from his body to be given as a penalty, it was a natural position. The lower arm was closer to his body than his elbow and the angle of arm to shoulder was less than 30%.
I await to see the VAR shilouette that UEFA will use next season.
Click to expand...
Presumably it will be the silhouette of a double amputee.
 
BlueAnorak said:
That wasn't a penalty last night. That said it was more of a penalty than Otamendi's so in that respect it was at least consistent.
The arms of the PSG player were not really a sufficient distance from his body to be given as a penalty, it was a natural position. The lower arm was closer to his body than his elbow and the angle of arm to shoulder was less than 30%.
I await to see the VAR shilouette that UEFA will use next season.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned last night, the fact that ex-pros and ex-refs can't agree on whether it was the correct decision means that the laws and interpretation are not clear enough.

Just seen even Steven Gerrard saying it was the correct decision and Rio Ferdinand saying it's wrong. The exact opposite of what one would expect based on bias. The whole situation is nuts and needs clarifying.
 
SWP's back said:
It clearly was as he changed his mind so he believed he had committed an error.
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I don't suppose I can argue with the logic but the problem I have is that I reckon you'd be hard pushed to find many people (aside from the ref, the **** in the VAR studio and Peter fucking Walton) who would describe that as a clear and obvious error.
 
Decisions are being made that probably 80% of those watching would not have given - even/especially with the benefit of this supposed technology.
Have all the technology you want, but unless the interpretation on any given day, by a person (a virtually anonymous one) of any given allegiance, influence or indeed emotion is taken out - it will always be open to even more problems than the old system of the 3(4) officials.
I don't think I've ever watched a sport (no matter how detached I am from either side) and not during the contest ended up preferring one to the other - factor this normal human trait in with the above factors and it is a ridiculous imposition on a game that didn't need it.
Yes officials can be bent - but you've more chance of exposing that than you have with a system which, whether by accident or design, aides and abets covering up, leniency to one side, and possible cheating.
 
BlueAnorak said:
That wasn't a penalty last night. That said it was more of a penalty than Otamendi's so in that respect it was at least consistent.
The arms of the PSG player were not really a sufficient distance from his body to be given as a penalty, it was a natural position. The lower arm was closer to his body than his elbow and the angle of arm to shoulder was less than 30%.
I await to see the VAR shilouette that UEFA will use next season.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately I fear their will be at least 3 silhouettes that get selected on a case by case basis depending on shirt colour and match position. The only time we would get a decision like last nights in our favour would be if we were 3/4 nil up already.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I don't suppose I can argue with the logic but the problem I have is that I reckon you'd be hard pushed to find many people (aside from the ref, the **** in the VAR studio and Peter fucking Walton) who would describe that as a clear and obvious error.
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Depends, if the refs, at one of their foreign UEFA CL jollies have been told that ball to hand in the area is now handball (as seems to be the case based on the two cases where that's happened in the round of 16) then I can see the argument that it is an clear and obvious error. As I keep repeating though, it needs clearing up though for us proles so we (and the players) know what is and is not now considered a penalty.
 
hello said:
Unfortunately I fear their will be at least 3 silhouettes that get selected on a case by case basis depending on shirt colour and match position. The only time we would get a decision like last nights in our favour would be if we were 3/4 nil up already.
Click to expand...
Quite.
The whole implementation of VAR is not public enough. Football has a lot to learn from Rugby and Cricket in this respect. Everything has to be made public and subject to scrutiny.
 
hello said:
Unfortunately I fear their will be at least 3 silhouettes that get selected on a case by case basis depending on shirt colour and match position. The only time we would get a decision like last nights in our favour would be if we were 3/4 nil up already.
Click to expand...
So silhouette of this guy for united, Liverpool, Barca and Real:

maxresdefault.jpg


And silhouette of this guy for us and PSG?

article-1196755-058DCDF9000005DC-866_634x784.jpg
 
SWP's back said:
Depends, if the refs, at one of their foreign UEFA CL jollies have been told that ball to hand in the area is now handball (as seems to be the case based on the two cases where that's happened in the round of 16) then I can see the argument that it is an clear and obvious error. As I keep repeating though, it needs clearing up though for us proles so we (and the players) know what is and is not now considered a penalty.
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The fact that you're even saying that it needs clearing up for the players when we are in the middle of a major tournament and catastrophic decisions have already been made says it all. This is beyond a fucking mess and frankly stinks of something worse.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
This is beyond a fucking mess and frankly stinks of something worse.
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I won't agree with that until I see United/Barca get away with one. Until that happens then I'll (possibly naively) believe that they are being consistent with their interpretation of the handball law in the area.
 
SWP's back said:
As I mentioned last night, the fact that ex-pros and ex-refs can't agree on whether it was the correct decision means that the laws and interpretation are not clear enough.

Just seen even Steven Gerrard saying it was the correct decision and Rio Ferdinand saying it's wrong. The exact opposite of what one would expect based on bias. The whole situation is nuts and needs clarifying.
Click to expand...

Would that not be covered under the 'clear & obvious' error narrative. As there's such debate, from all sides, it's certainly not a clear and obvious error. Therefore, should have been left alone.
Unless they've now changed the wording?
 
SWP's back said:
I won't agree with that until I see United/Barca get away with one. Until that happens then I'll (possibly naively) believe that they are being consistent with their interpretation of the handball law in the area.
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How would you even know if united got away with one across their two matches with PSG? That's a serious question btw and not me trying to be a twat (I don't have to try). Not every innocuous incident is replayed on TV, that incident last night was completely innocuous at full speed, I don't think anyone appealed for a pen, I don't think the ref indicated that he had seen anything remotely debateable and only on someone speaking in his ear and it being replayed at ultra slow speeds did it become evident that there was even something to look at. If you hadn't seen a replay and they had just taken the corner, would you now be saying that there was an incident that had been missed by VAR, in fact would anyone be saying that? I don't think they would. So how do we know that there weren't other incidents in those two matches that just weren't flagged up by the VAR people and just looked totally innocuous at full speed, on one viewing?
 
VAR will be a joke and after the last two big pens given, its only going to get worst with the new rules in place next season with handball ????

knowing man city and PSG already been done over by VAR and uefa and its cost PSG a place in the next rounds and it could still cost city too, but am 100% nail on the so called big clubs in europe will never got a call like that when its knocking them out of the piss pot cup home or away, it does not even get view by VAR or tv until after the game ??? then they say its swings and roundabouts and it will even itself out over the season ???? hahahaha
 
Lancet Fluke said:
How would you even know if united got away with one across their two matches with PSG? That's a serious question btw and not me trying to be a twat (I don't have to try). Not every innocuous incident is replayed on TV, that incident last night was completely innocuous at full speed, I don't think anyone appealed for a pen, I don't think the ref indicated that he had seen anything remotely debateable and only on someone speaking in his ear and it being replayed at ultra slow speeds did it become evident that there was even something to look at. If you hadn't seen a replay and they had just taken the corner, would you now be saying that there was an incident that had been missed by VAR, in fact would anyone be saying that? I don't think they would. So how do we know that there weren't other incidents in those two matches that just weren't flagged up by the VAR people and just looked totally innocuous at full speed, on one viewing?
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Much like the Chelsea United game. Luiz is running round with the back of his shirt flapping round. TV didn't pick it up or even show a replay for 10 minutes. Turns out Smalling had litterally ripped the shirt from his back. Yet weirdly nothing was given. It wasn't obvious at full speed.
Last night, was in no way a clear and obvious error.
 
It's obvious the intentions of VAR, and it's not fair play. It still leaves debate on deciosions, last night wasn't a penalty IMO. And is just going to be used to help certain favorites progress. Things will get ignored for one team whilst the other prospers. If that incident had happened at the other end there is absolutely no way it's looked at for PSG. Scrap the whole thing it's corrupt
 
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