VAR (PL introduction 2019)

SWP's back said:
The ref does and did make the call last night in both games. Only times it’s a guy in a darkened room is “likes calls”.
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Referee didn't make the Otamendi call, unless you're buying the UEFA angle that he overruled himself after an audio description.
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
Totally agree with this. Same with Hawkeye in tennis. Not as fallible as everyone is led to believe. I think pakistan raises concerns about accuracy of the tech in cricket and the Indians refused to use it for a good while.
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Tennis at least is showing what has happened, not what might have happened. Now, Hawkeye is pretty accurate in that regard, so it's perfectly reasonable to use it. The predictive element is more uncertain, and again, the ICC did do some testing on that, then refused to publish the report. And then we have different systems - Hawkeye was specifically designed for ball tracking, Virtual Eye was not, it's graphical representation software.

Now again, people can be entirely in favour of it, no problem with that and it's a decent debate. But the idea cricket has been open about it all is untrue.
 
Henkeman said:
What I wrote is entirely true. "Rubbish" is not a counter argument.

It is indeed replayed to the crowd, but the basis of the decision and the accuracy of the technology behind it has never been publicly viewed. You watch and assume it is correct, it is entirely self-justifying.

Your original point was that it is open to scrutiny. No it is not. It is taken entirely on trust. The ICC are no kind of template here.
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You have your opinion, I have mine.
What exactly is the problem, the accuracy of predicted ball trajectories?
 
ancoats said:
hahahahaha

how can anybody say otamendi was hand ball ?? i even think he did his best to turn and pull is arm away from that close range, i think is was 00.6 of a second from shot to ball hitting his arm and if he meant that ?? then he is a better player than we give him credit for hahaha
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I agree, no way it was a penalty, but if you glance back at the match thread, and no doubt since, there are people that think it was definitely a penalty.

I just don't get it.
 
Of course UEFA has to fuck up the implementation of this technology.

In other sports it's scrutinised and you can hear what the ref is asking and the replies from the other officials.
 
SWP's back said:
Yeah wasn’t clear and obvious so they didn’t over rule the ref on the pitch. (I didn’t see it, I’m parroting ESPC FC who were talking about it)
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I saw it and saw the replays. I didn't see any contact with the ankle at all.
The Porto player briefly touched the back of the Roma player with his hand and he went down like a two dollar whore.
 
daveiw01 said:
I agree, no way it was a penalty, but if you glance back at the match thread, and no doubt since, there are people that think it was definitely a penalty.

I just don't get it.
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if the rule says it was denying your opponent a clear goal then ok i can buy that, but the rule is not based upon ball to hand or arm ?? its open to judgement by the officials and the match referee and now VAR, ?? and was the shot really on target and the keeper also behind the ball diving, so again the referee given a corner then VAR said you may have made a clear mistake, knowing the rules helps ?? and don't get me start on otamendi goal even going to VAR or being used in the game without a tv monitor for the ref to change his mind in the first place ????? the game should have been played without VAR and corner should have stood
 
Ive always said to my Dad 99% of hand balls are not deliberate. Some get accused of being in an "unnatural position" but i dont think they intend to do it. There is no way Otamendi is thinking "oh i will handball this" as the same with the PSG defender.

Its already bad that any contact with a boot (accidental) or a simple brush of a foot, which happens 70+ times a game can be deemed a penalty on a replay.

I have always been against it. Goaline technology is fine for me however
 
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BlueAnorak said:
You have your opinion, I have mine.
What exactly is the problem, the accuracy of predicted ball trajectories?
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You haven't advanced the remotest case for saying where i am wrong. You've merely said "rubbish". This is not going to get us very far.

Who knows? The ICC refused to release the report on the testing of it. Again, you made a specific point that football should be more like cricket in terms of openness. The ICC haven't been open.
 
SWP's back said:
The ref does and did make the call last night in both games. Only times it’s a guy in a darkened room is “likes calls”.
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No, he gave a corner..... Otherwise, the penalty wouldnt have been given. Who is selectively making the call there? Are we supposed to believe it's all above board and honest?

What VAR gives is the same vague decisions but this time with "official VAR evidence" to support the crackpot decisions.
 
Barcon said:
I saw it and saw the replays. I didn't see any contact with the ankle at all.
The Porto player briefly touched the back of the Roma player with his hand and he went down like a two dollar whore.
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So correct decision? Genuine question as I didn’t see.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
No, he gave a corner..... Otherwise, the penalty wouldnt have been given. Who is selectively making the call there? Are we supposed to believe it's all above board and honest?

What VAR gives is the same vague decisions but this time with "official VAR evidence" to support the crackpot decisions.
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The ref over ruled himself as he believed he’d made an error. Or did you not see him walk over to the screen and watch?
 
You watch, we'll be 3 - 0 up against Schalke and it will flick the fingernail of one of their defenders.
We'll get the penalty by VAR and they'll wonder how the fuck we can complain ;-)
 
SWP's back said:
The ref over ruled himself as he believed he’d made an error. Or did you not see him walk over to the screen and watch?
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No I watched him point to the corner for the corner. Then the corner was setup, then the ref told them to wait due to VAR, then he went to have a look. My point is who is selectively deciding when VARs needs to be checked.. It's just another layer of vagueness and decision making.

Are you saying the utd players claiming handball convinced him to change his mind? That doesn't fit any rules on vars whatsoever so I assume someone in the VAR room told him to look at it, which is the way VAR works.
 
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BrianW said:
Surely the new tactic will be to kick the ball as hard as you can at a defender's arm. Much better than diving as you can't get done for cheating. If that one United got yesterday is anything to go by, any ball touching a defender's arm is an automatic penalty.
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Yep. It feels as though referees in live play don't give them as penalties, but once it goes to VAR the likelihood of it being awarded is much higher. We probably will need more data before knowing how true that really is, but it's a perception, and one echoed by the feeling as soon as it goes to VAR that it's going to be given.

The arguments about whether it was or wasn't a penalty seem to me to be by the by - if the referee gives it in normal play, it shouldn't be overturned, if he doesn't, it shouldn't be overturned then either. It's just the reality of football that many things are entirely subjective, and all it's doing is replacing one referee's opinion with another. So sure, boot it at the arm and appeal like mad for the penalty.
 
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