VAR thread 2022/23

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Fully agree that with the non-marginal calls, which cannot really be manipulated else the corruption is obvious, VAR is much better than the alternative. That’s something I have never argued against, though.

My discussion with @Alan Harper's Tash (and a few others in the past) is about the marginal incidents, which are ripe for manipulation, and the fact that the PL has specifically implemented VAR differently to other leagues to murky the waters win it comes to those marginal calls (in my opinion to allow for continued opportunities for manipulation in those scenarios, whether or not they chose to do so every time).

Essentially, my argument is that VAR could be much better—and perhaps was actually better (though, still not as good as it could be) earlier in it’s use—than it is now but the PL *chooses* to keep it in this suboptimal form and even make changes that make it less fit for its purpose.
Well you say non marginal cant be manipulated, but lets not forget that Arsenal goal wouldnt have stood. Nearly 3 and a half meters onside. Thats the risk we face with no VAR to keep these tw@ts in check. Funny how these ludicrous decisions only happen in a couple of teams favour…..

In terms of the marginal ones, we’ve had some go both in our favour and against. Bin dippers the same in the last 10 days. Its not perfect and hopefully this semi automated system should take out that human intervention element.

It needs to improve further, lets hope we see that next step forward at the world cup…. And the Premier league adopt it obviously
 
VAR - it's fucking great when it rules against any of the red shite.

VAR - its fucking shite when it rules against the blue Gods.
 
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Well you say non marginal cant be manipulated, but lets not forget that Arsenal goal wouldnt have stood. Nearly 3 and a half meters onside. Thats the risk we face with no VAR to keep these tw@ts in check. Funny how these ludicrous decisions only happen in a couple of teams favour…..

In terms of the marginal ones, we’ve had some go both in our favour and against. Bin dippers the same in the last 10 days. Its not perfect and hopefully this semi automated system should take out that human intervention element.

It needs to improve further, lets hope we see that next step forward at the world cup…. And the Premier league adopt it obviously

True, that goes to my agreement that VAR is better than the alternative in the very obviously wrong decisions (which now cannot be “missed” without it being so obvious as to fully expose manipulation).

And regarding marginal incidents going for and against us, I address that in my most recent reply to @Alan Harper's Tash. I have not and do not assert they *always* choose to manipulate outcomes via marginal calls. Only that they have *chosen* to implement VAR in a way that allows them to do so and that the current state of VAR is not necessary (i.e. they could make it more transparent and much less susceptible to manipulation but choose not to do that).

I too am quite interested to see how the semi-automated offside system works and whether the PL will adopt it. It tends to be the last to adopt any such innovation (itself a tell-tale sign of corruption) and, when it does, tends to do it slightly differently (read: less transparently) to most other major leagues.

And I will still find the system suspect if they refuse to release general information outlining the underlying systems, methods, and margins of error as they have with the current system. That lack of transparency is a major red flag, as there is no reasonable argument for not providing that basic information of the current 3D spatial measurement system (they can repeat “oh, well, we want to protect the proprietary systems” all they want, but no one is going to reverse engineer the product if they released the margin of error (and/or variance between implementation sites).

Otherwise they are just replacing one relatively opaque system with another—arguable even more—opaque system.
 
View attachment 54542
Just look at the camera angle they CHOSE to show the viewers here.

You could EASILY roll that back 4 or 5 frames and CLAIMED it was the moment the pass was made and the attacker would have appeared MILES onside.

That is how easy it is to manipulate the system.
Exactly this. And, with the current ‘no accountability’ regime, even if a major outlet were to question the use of that specific frame or another to determine offside/onside, there is no recourse. Dermot Gallagher would just explain it away on Ref Watch and time would march on with non consequences.

That is the uncessary ‘opportunity for manipulation’ inherent to the system I am talking about.

Things don’t *have* to be this way. The PL *chooses* for them to be this way.
 
True, that goes to my agreement that VAR is better than the alternative in the very obviously wrong decisions (which now cannot be “missed” without it being so obvious as to fully expose manipulation).

And regarding marginal incidents going for and against us, I address that in my most recent reply to @Alan Harper's Tash. I have not and do not assert they *always* choose to manipulate outcomes via marginal calls. Only that they have *chosen* to implement VAR in a way that allows them to do so and that the current state of VAR is not necessary (i.e. they could make it more transparent and much less susceptible to manipulation but choose not to do that).

I too am quite interested to see how the semi-automated offside system works and whether the PL will adopt it. It tends to be the last to adopt any such innovation (itself a tell-tale sign of corruption) and, when it does, tends to do it slightly differently (read: less transparently) to most other major leagues.

And will still find the system dubious if they refuse to release general information outlining the underlying systems, methods, and margins of error as they have with the current system. That lack of transparency is a major red flag, as there is no reasonable argument for not providing that basic information of the current 3D spatial measurement system (they can repeat “oh, well, we want to protect the proprietary systems” all they want, but no one is going to reverse engineer the product if they released the margin of error (and/or variance between implementation sites).
Think I posted yesterday that an in-depth documentary about VAR including in game examples of how it works would be beneficial for everyone.
 
View attachment 54542
Just look at the camera angle they CHOSE to show the viewers here.

You could EASILY roll that back 4 or 5 frames and CLAIMED it was the moment the pass was made and the attacker would have appeared MILES onside.

That is how easy it is to manipulate the system.
Also why was Rashfords offside goal allowed to stand and this not. They told us the new rules means Rashfords could be given so why are so many others inc the same weekend as Rashford where Tony was a toe nail offside for Brentford ruled out for offside. Guess no one in charge has come out to tell us why some are offside and some not
 
Not sure if genuine, but if it is...


Hopefully that isn’t true otherwise they’ve made the wrong call and makes a complete mockery of the system.

Have we now been informed that that Rashford goal was still subjective rather than within the margin of tolerance which was supposed to be more automated?

Fucking farce, if so, and would definitely lead to people believing that it’s being manipulated.
 
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