VAR thread 2022/23

[Coljj]

Some of the Champions League waits on offside calls have been absolutely ridiculous. It's almost like the people in the control room are overseeing their 1st game and have basic understanding of the system.

 

[Hayley Croppers chopper]

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

If you allow a margin for error, say 2cm (excessive I know), the argument will just evolve to being was he 2cm or was 2.000001cm? It is a never ending point of debate which will always be used to favour the chosen few.... sadly.

It would be 2cm for everyone though. No judgement, no human intervention, and therefore no bias.

They could set it up so one team gets 2.5cm advantage but that's quite ott, but nonetheless possible. But it's a lot less probable than ref bias or cheating.

Sounds good to me. But let's see

 

[BlueHammer85]

They have made relatively easy decisions hard. Even with VAR in current use its usually easy to spot if a player's feet are either in front or behind the other players feet. If behind, or even level the player should be judged on side. Not rocket science is it. After all, the game is called football,so why should other parts of your body be classed as offside.

Much better before with clear offside goals standing and onside goals being disallowed by a lino that’s got to see loads of things going on at a ridiculous speed - often they just took a guess

 

[danielwood5]

Much better before with clear offside goals standing and onside goals being disallowed by a lino that’s got to see loads of things going on at a ridiculous speed - often they just took a guess

You always say this but how many CLEAR offside goals can you remember?
The most recent one I can remember was Liverpool against West Ham about 4 or 5 years ago when the linesman was in a terrible position to spot Milner being a good few yards offside, even then the ball was passed forward and the player who made the break missed a one on one so it didnt even lead to a goal.
Compared to this number of CLEAR offside goals you talk about how many perfectly good goals has VAR chalked off over the last 3 years when a player may have been a mm offside depending on where the freeze frame was stopped or which pixel on which part of the body was used to decide the offside? Our 'winner' against Liverpool last season immediately springs to mind in this case.
If this new automated version makes it faster and more accurate then that's fine but if it's still limited by camera frame speed and issues with determining where an armpit starts and ends then it will just stop more legitimate goals being scored. At least it will be quicker though I suppose but it feels like a solution to a problem that never really existed outside of manufactured outrage on Sky and Talksport for armchair fans.

 

[BlueHammer85]

You always say this but how many CLEAR offside goals can you remember?
The most recent one I can remember was Liverpool against West Ham about 4 or 5 years ago when the linesman was in a terrible position to spot Milner being a good few yards offside, even then the ball was passed forward and the player who made the break missed a one on one so it didnt even lead to a goal.
Compared to this number of CLEAR offside goals you talk about how many perfectly good goals has VAR chalked off over the last 3 years when a player may have been a mm offside depending on where the freeze frame was stopped or which pixel on which part of the body was used to decide the offside? Our 'winner' against Liverpool last season immediately springs to mind in this case.
If this new automated version makes it faster and more accurate then that's fine but if it's still limited by camera frame speed and issues with determining where an armpit starts and ends then it will just stop more legitimate goals being scored. At least it will be quicker though I suppose but it feels like a solution to a problem that never really existed outside of manufactured outrage on Sky and Talksport for armchair fans.

Good reply this - I think it’s easy to forget how many clear offsides/onside decisions were incorrect (I’m sure I could dig out many examples) and when I watch lower league football I really notice how bad decisions are whether it’s offsides, or penalty’s, handballs - some of it is farcical- totally agree if VAR also gets it totally wrong that’s even more unacceptable
Do feel VAR is improving - how many blatant dives were there last season , where players had zero contact and won a penalty ? I don’t think there was one was there ?
Seasons before, particularly Salah won numerous penalties with blatant no contact diving - this is being stamped out thanks to VAR
It still has a long way to go - but season by season it’s improving

 

[Bobby the blue]

Good reply this - I think it’s easy to forget how many clear offsides/onside decisions were incorrect (I’m sure I could dig out many examples) and when I watch lower league football I really notice how bad decisions are whether it’s offsides, or penalty’s, handballs - some of it is farcical- totally agree if VAR also gets it totally wrong that’s even more unacceptable
Do feel VAR is improving - how many blatant dives were there last season , where players had zero contact and won a penalty ? I don’t think there was one was there ?
Seasons before, particularly Salah won numerous penalties with blatant no contact diving - this is being stamped out thanks to VAR
It still has a long way to go - but season by season it’s improving

Definitely a lot better last season and appeared to run a lot smoother. Hopefully next season will continue in the same vein.

Still takes that raw emotion out of going bananas after a goal though with var in the back of your mind.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

So quicker and more accurate!!!
Thereby acknowledging it has not been accurate in the past....
You are either accurate or not. Making more accurate doesn't make it accurate either.

The term Semi automatic also fills me with dread. Goal line tech is automatic.... What is the semi bit refering to?

 

[Kippax77]

So quicker and more accurate!!!
Thereby acknowledging it has not been accurate in the past....
You are either accurate or not. Making more accurate doesn't make it accurate either.

The term Semi automatic also fills me with dread. Goal line tech is automatic.... What is the semi bit refering to?

Two more words that fill me with dread.... Mike Dean.
He's took up a job on VAR.
Now he'll be able to contribute to a sending off from an armchair

 

[blueinsa]

So quicker and more accurate!!!
Thereby acknowledging it has not been accurate in the past....
You are either accurate or not. Making more accurate doesn't make it accurate either.

The term Semi automatic also fills me with dread. Goal line tech is automatic.... What is the semi bit refering to?

Semi means they can alter the decision dependant on the colour of shirt involved.

It’s proven they don’t have the tech to decide offsides accurately and probably never will die to the way a camera works/FPS.

It suits them to use whatever frame gives them the outcome they want.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

It would be 2cm for everyone though. No judgement, no human intervention, and therefore no bias.

They could set it up so one team gets 2.5cm advantage but that's quite ott, but nonetheless possible. But it's a lot less probable than ref bias or cheating.

Sounds good to me. But let's see

They will still be subjectively choosing the frame that they measure it from. All they have to do is roll it backwards or forwards a couple frames and the margin of error is effectively eliminated.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Semi means they can alter the decision dependant on the colour of shirt involved.

It’s proven they don’t have the tech to decide offsides accurately and probably never will die to the way a camera works/FPS.

It suits them to use whatever frame gives them the outcome they want.

Wouldn’t it be easier for ‘’them’’ to scrap VAR and just tell the Lino’s to flag up offsides when they’re clearly on against the teams ‘’they’’ don’t want to win - which presumably is just Man City for some reason

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

They will still be subjectively choosing the frame that they measure it from. All they have to do is roll it backwards or forwards a couple frames and the margin of error is effectively eliminated.

More than a couple of frames….this system takes data 500 times a second versus the current 50 times…..that’s a lot of ‘winding back’

What’s clear to me is the refs will need to be smarter in their cheating…

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

More than a couple of frames….this system takes data 500 times a second versus the current 50 times…..that’s a lot of ‘winding back’

What’s clear to me is the refs will need to be smarter in their cheating…

There might be 500 data points per second, but what does that mean for the video frame rate?

VFR is the limiting factor. As far as I'm aware current frame rate is either 24fps or 30fps. I know you can get high frame rate cameras, but the higher the frame rate, the more light you need so you either have to bump up the ISO (which comes with its own issues), or massively increase the light levels which is impractical. Also, once you start getting into 60fps territory you start getting into big data issues.

The current margin of error can be in the region of cm, not mm one frame to the next for a forward player running at top speed.

 

[Blue Mist]

So quicker and more accurate!!!
Thereby acknowledging it has not been accurate in the past....
You are either accurate or not. Making more accurate doesn't make it accurate either.

The term Semi automatic also fills me with dread. Goal line tech is automatic.... What is the semi bit refering to?

Ah goal line tech. Isn't it wonderful, except when the whole world can see that the ball has crossed the line but the ref refused to give it because his monitor hadn't bleeped. Wasn't it the goalkeeper was in the way so the technology didn't work.?

 

[BlueAnorak]

The sensor in the ball SHOULD guarantee that the point at which the ball is touched (change in momentum) is accurate and therefore the time at which offside is calculated is accurate to 1/50th if a second. A footballer running at pace (30 kph) can travel @0.167m, Walker at 32 Kph a bit further @0.178m. So let's hope they take into account the pace of runners.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Ah goal line tech. Isn't it wonderful, except when the whole world can see that the ball has crossed the line but the ref refused to give it because his monitor hadn't bleeped. Wasn't it the goalkeeper was in the way so the technology didn't work.?

Would you scrap goal line tech ?

 

[madloaf]

I'm here to say fuck VAR.

It's the equivalent of a woman telling you youre "doing it wrong". Maybe it's fairer, but it's a damn sight less enjoyable.

 

[Blue Mist]

I'm here to say fuck VAR.

It's the equivalent of a woman telling you youre "doing it wrong". Maybe it's fairer, but it's a damn sight less enjoyable.

When you say a woman telling you you're doing it wrong....
Please explain as no woman has ever said that to me.....
'What the fuck do you mean you've cum' followed by 'already', yes, but never you are doing it wrong.

 

[richardtheref]

Would you scrap goal line tech ?

Hawkeye has been scrapped by most tennis tournaments as not 100% accurate and can be affected by wind, shadows,players getting in the way etc. Wimbledon one of the few still using it