VAR thread 2022/23

Status
Not open for further replies.
Brightwell Bros. said:
That's my main feeling about it all. As far as I am concerned, all the Brighton outcomes make complete sense in the rules of VAR, it's just that VAR is nonsense. People want, and thought they were going to get, overturning of poor on-field decisions even if the ref had sort of vaguely seen it. We have created a system where refs are making dodgy decisions based on the hope VAR will overturn it if they're wrong, and VAR not intervening as they don't want to impact the on-field decision. Absolute shite.
Click to expand...
I think that's pretty much the problem, rather than VAR - it's the expectations.

There would almost certainly have been a lot more incorrect penalty/goal decisions before VAR, but when a lot of decisions are 60/40 or even 50/50, there are always going to be arguments.

The problem is that fans thought VAR would award their team every close decision, and the "correct" ones are usually the ones that go in the favour of their own team. So, VAR still leaves a lot of fans unhappy. PGMOL responds to the pressure, and starts leaving it more to the ref, but of course the refs are going to make mistakes, or have VAR in their head and so don't give those close decisions, and the pressure comes in the opposite direction of "why didn't VAR intervene". So PGMOL start overturning decisions, and we get accusations that matches are being re-refereed, and VAR makes a mistake, and we get the pressure to go the other way again.

Ultimately our expectations of a system, where humans are still making subjective decisions, is way too high.
 
bluenova said:
I think that's pretty much the problem, rather than VAR - it's the expectations.

There would almost certainly have been a lot more incorrect penalty/goal decisions before VAR, but when a lot of decisions are 60/40 or even 50/50, there are always going to be arguments.

The problem is that fans thought VAR would award their team every close decision, and the "correct" ones are usually the ones that go in the favour of their own team. So, VAR still leaves a lot of fans unhappy. PGMOL responds to the pressure, and starts leaving it more to the ref, but of course the refs are going to make mistakes, or have VAR in their head and so don't give those close decisions, and the pressure comes in the opposite direction of "why didn't VAR intervene". So PGMOL start overturning decisions, and we get accusations that matches are being re-refereed, and VAR makes a mistake, and we get the pressure to go the other way again.

Ultimately our expectations of a system, where humans are still making subjective decisions, is way too high.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of this. I realized quite quickly that VAR introduced a bunch of (excuse the pretension for a second) weird epistemological questions about the balance of probabilities, justified belief and other stuff where vernacular "balances out over a season" was probably good enough. Add on top of that the fact that most fans and some players don't seem to know the laws, that the laws for handball by definition are always going to be a bit of a mess, and now referees of all things issuing apologies and we are on a hiding to nothing.
 
bluenova said:
I think that's pretty much the problem, rather than VAR - it's the expectations.

There would almost certainly have been a lot more incorrect penalty/goal decisions before VAR, but when a lot of decisions are 60/40 or even 50/50, there are always going to be arguments.

The problem is that fans thought VAR would award their team every close decision, and the "correct" ones are usually the ones that go in the favour of their own team. So, VAR still leaves a lot of fans unhappy. PGMOL responds to the pressure, and starts leaving it more to the ref, but of course the refs are going to make mistakes, or have VAR in their head and so don't give those close decisions, and the pressure comes in the opposite direction of "why didn't VAR intervene". So PGMOL start overturning decisions, and we get accusations that matches are being re-refereed, and VAR makes a mistake, and we get the pressure to go the other way again.

Ultimately our expectations of a system, where humans are still making subjective decisions, is way too high.
Click to expand...

Sorry, long post. I have some sympathy with this view. The laws of the game are so subjective that there will always be arguments about interpretations even with clear video evidence of what happened. But it is what it is. Maybe expectations need to be recalibrated and just maybe the rules should be simplified to reflect that. I am a firm believer that anybody watching at the ground or on a broadcast should be able to understand decisions being made in real time, but the game is getting further and further from that with each new law amendment/ guideline. It just infuriates everybody. So make the rules simpler. There is no point having six rules when the decision is subjective anyway.

VAR will never get everything "right" because what is right depends on who you support, but what it needs is transparency. We should be able to see, hear and understand why referees are making their decisions and this brings us back to the first point. We need to hear what referees and VAR are saying in real time, but it has to be simple. Take the Rashford offside. The only subjective decision should be "Is he interfering with play?" Simple question even if the answer is subjective. Conversation with VAR easy. But with six determining factors detailed in the law they would have to discuss each one to make the decision and they still get it wrong because no one can ever write down all the situations in which someone is interfering. So they still get it wrong. Not one of the six situations? Not offside. It's the pretence of objectivity in a subjective environment. A complete waste of time.

So make the rules simpler, let the referees referee the game and only use VAR if someone is clearly (to the naked eye) offside, if someone clearly deliberately handles the ball, or if the referee misses a serious foul tackle. And then on a consistent basis, but that is just training. And let's hear it all.
 
If VAR are not going to tell the on-field pillock that he has dropped a bollock then just use it for offsides and checking goals.

Or better still remove the operating of it from PGMOL and let the PL create its own body to run VAR.
 
Gray said:
If VAR are not going to tell the on-field pillock that he has dropped a bollock then just use it for offsides and checking goals.

Or better still remove the operating of it from PGMOL and let the PL create its own body to run VAR.
Click to expand...
The current set up is already funded by the FA/PL with zero independent oversight.

The PL should be NOWHERE NEAR IT after Scudamore's infamous 'strategic plan' comments.
 
Atwell the var ref for wolves/Brentford this weekend, great reward for his excellent performance last weekend….
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.