VAR thread 2022/23

[SebastianBlue]

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your opinion.

This post suggests that you think VAR is used to manipulate results, which is what I thought your position was (and I'd assumed you want less of it because of that). Given that's the case, allowing any intervention in situations like the Casimero one, just lowers the bar, and allows the possibility of more manipulation.

Hence the point about City being screwed over. I don't think it's a strawman at all, I'm suggesting that if you believe VAR is used to manipulate outcomes, then making that easier by looking at more decisions, feels relevant to me.

But that isn’t what I advocate for, so it is a strawman. If you believe that is a valid point, that’s fine, but you were arguing I was making that point, which I haven’t.

Also, my opinion is not that VAR is always for manipulation of match outcomes, but rather it has been designed and implemented to allow for it, when desired. Officials aren’t always trying to manipulate matches, but I do think anyone believing they aren’t sometimes doing that—especially given the evidence from just the last season, much less evidence across world football in general—are being exceptionally naive.

Getting back to the actual debate, I think it would be helpful to apply a regression analysis to help define our individual base positions:

What is the stated point of VAR?

My understanding, from everything the FA, PGMOL, and the League have publicly stated, is the point of VAR is to decrease the officiating error rate to the lowest level possible (it can’t be eliminated entirely, that is impossible). With that is an implied goal of improving accuracy and consistency in decision-making.

However, the way officiating rules and VAR was designed, implemented, since modified several times, and actually employed is not actually in keeping with that stated mission.

Many of the design, implementation, and modifications decisions actually increase variance between different officiating and VAR teams, and from incident to incident. The rules themselves have been changed to become more subjective than they were prior to VAR. And there have been increasingly more high profile “mistakes” that PGMOL (recently Webb) have had to acknowledge and apologise for. Many of them were highly dubious in the context of how they impacted the teams they went against (Brighton, Wolves, Leeds to name a few), or the teams they went for (often members of the top six, funny enough).

And, as I have pointed out countless times, incompetence can only be an explanation for a limited period. Once the ‘state of incompetence’ has persisted—even despite there being various fairly straightforward methods to remove/mitigate it—it transitions in to corruption.

What I want is major reform so that VAR is actually a system that achieves it’s stated goal.

But there appears to be very little appetite for that amongst the governing bodies.

And I personally don’t think that is because they just don’t know how to make it better and improve the confidence football fans have in the integrity of the sport.

 

[Stephen230]

I understand the protocol now, but it seemed you were arguing that VAR shouldn’t get involved in these types of incidents (even though they were already involved) because it would lead to too much VAR intervention.

Did I misunderstand?

I wouldn’t say I’m actively against them getting more involved in a wider range of calls. But I can see the pitfalls if they did.

I think another guy has pretty much just made this same point. But most people seem keen for less VAR involvement most of the time. But now suddenly on the back of this one incident, they seem to be asking for more.

 

[Blue Mist]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me when the rags have has a contentious Var decision go against them.
Either a hell of a lot of posters have me on ignore (understandable really) or no one can think of ONE single decision

 

[woody1968]

Good point. I think it was one of those orange cards so just shy of a red and no need to alert the ref. The ref got it wrong but not wrong enough. Your right VAR intervening to award yellow cards and free kicks would be farcical.

Well said - I think that just about sums up the Casemiro incident.

 

[KentBlue]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me when the rags have has a contentious Var decision go against them.
Either a hell of a lot of posters have me on ignore (understandable really) or no one can think of ONE single decision

I'm not ignoring you, mate. For what it's worth I saw your original post regarding a VAR decision going against them, but I also cannot for the life of me remember one such incident. I'm open to correction but I just can't remember a single one.
Says it all, really.

 

[Stephen230]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me when the rags have has a contentious Var decision go against them.
Either a hell of a lot of posters have me on ignore (understandable really) or no one can think of ONE single decision

Best I can think of off the top of my head were those two Casemiro sendings off in short succession. Both instigated by the VAR.

That’s not to say I necessarily disagree with them before I’m accused of being a United fan yet again. But they fit your criteria of being VAR decisions and contentious I suppose.

 

[Nellies left peg]

Best I can think of off the top of my head were those two Casemiro sendings off in short succession. Both instigated by the VAR.

That’s not to say I necessarily disagree with them before I’m accused of being a United fan yet again. But they fit your criteria of being VAR decisions and contentious I suppose.

Rag!

 

[Stephen230]

Rag!

Thank you. I was getting worried. It’s been almost a week since the last one.

 

[Nellies left peg]

Thank you. I was getting worried. It’s been almost a week since the last one.

You’re welcome,I didn’t want others to get in first and call you a fucking rag **** they can be cruel at times :-)

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

We keep winning despite PGMOL and VAR trying to stop us.

Every close decision went the way of the Rags and only murmurings from the media about the corruption.

Some weren't exactly close